What Constitutes Chronic Depression

The point I was trying to make was that "depression" is over/mis diagnosed . The basis for much of the outright fraudulent misdiagnoses is that people experience stress , sometimes overwhelming stress ...their reactions can be normal , but instead are classified by some as having a permanent condition and chemical imbalance in need of drugs to "correct" this .

Many of the drugs used are so knowingly damaging that a reasonable person could conclude that these "doctors" have disregarded their own ethical codes in favor of personal profit .

 

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Chronic Depressions -

It could be external or internal....perhaps certain cues (social)
evoke depressing thoughts...or could be bio chemical...
i think it is a combination of both...what ever bothers a person
can cause a chemical reaction in the body which can then
evoke behavior that is what we human beings presently call
depression....however, in a more advance stages of human evolution
we will probably call it something else....perhaps....
rejection of cues that are detrminental for the
evolution of the human mind....

 

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I completely agree.



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the difference between average people and people who truely have "clinical depression", and are not just depressed right now (as in short term):


happy
|.........................................|--------------|
|.........................................--Manic high
||-------------|......................---Range-----
|---Average-......................|---------------|
|----Person-..|--------------|.....................
|---Range---..---------------.......................
|--------------..-Depressed-.|---------------|
|--------------..---Range----..--Manic Low-
||-------------|.---------------..---Range-----
|...................|--------------|.|---------------|
depressed

So an average person have a range of good days and bad days, a depressed person has a range of bad days and average days, and a manic person has some of both, but very little of the average days. Keep in mind that this is a probability chart, so depressed people many have an actual good day, and an average person may have a seriously depressed time.

the problem is about the overall average level- that which is determined largely by your brain chemistry; whereas an average person's depression will be caused by environmental factors, such as the death of a loved one.


Misdiagnosis is a large problem, across the US and across the world. Much of the time, if an emotionally average person who has a bad week takes some anti-depressants, they will feel better. "Well," they think, "if medication for depressed people works for me, then I must be depressed!" And for some reason, doctors agree with them.

Most people are not clinically depressed, but stressed, unclear as to the goal of thier lives, overworked, and over depended on by others. If people want to get out of a depression, they should first look at what is causing the depression. really dig down, and be fully honest with themselves. it's not easy to look at yourself and your own faults and prejudeces. but once you see them, you can work on them. This tends to give people a sense of confidence, reduces stress, and aliviates depression. then you don't need drugs to get to where you want to be.
I still say that drugs can be a usefull tool if used responsibly, though. Use them as they are needed.


If anyone has a copy of Wired available, they have an article about the high % of medical doctors who are funded by pharmicutical compnaies, and whether or not that poses a conflict of interest. Something like 46% of doctors sposored by pharm companies are required to wait 6 months before publishing any R&D work done. Other doctors, whose continued grant $$ depends on the success of their current project, are involved in writing the recommened dosage/use for drugs that they have created. A bit worrysome, IMO.

 

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River _wind , which anti-depressants are you talking about ? The SSRI's ?

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http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16375724.htm

http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/comment/0,8146,922120,00.html

http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/news/0,8363,915731,00.html

http://www.motherjones.com/magazine/JA02/disorders.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/weekinweekout/stories/mindgames.shtml

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A42930-2002May6&notFound=true

 

I'm largley talking about the medications that I have personal or second-hand information on -welbutrin, tufranil, ritalin, etc... I try and avoid spreading any information that I gathered from any father away than that (friend of a friend, and such)- too close to rumor at that point ot be at all reliable, IMO.

I'm not sure which are classified as SSRI's



BTW, Mother Jone's is a great publication -thanks for the links!




edit: keep in mind that the subjects of the "sugar-pill" studies were "diagnosed with clinical dpression". however, these diagnosis are not done via chemical methods, but by phycologists, using anecdotal evidence. IF there is a mis-diagnosis about who is clinically (chemically) depressed, then the data coming out of studies of medication to treat depression would not mean much.

Many times, people who are depressed because of a chemical imballance have a strange reaction to stimulents- it slows them down. Many average people who take ADD medication by accident find that they feel excited and giddy. A completely opposite effect from what those w/ ADD expirience - a claming and centering effect.

so if the test population group is at all mis-diagnosed, then it is to be expected that ADD medication would cause some to get better, and others to get worse- net effect would be non-exhistant.

I can tell you from personal exp., though that ADD medication, when given to a person with different brain chemistry than average (toward the ADD end), can produce a profound effect in their ability to orginize thoughts and actions.

 

River-wind , thanks for taking the time to describe your experiences and most of all your honesty . I have not taken the drugs you mentioned . My source for adverse effects is the PDR . I did take an Adderall once , at 1/3 the dosage (by body weight) as is commonly given to kids . Since it is a d-amphetamine , amphetamine mixture ...I was speeding for 12 hours . I do however, have experience with phrenologists posing as medical doctors . This is the reason for much of my disgust .

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From the Physicians Desk Reference :

Bupropion hydrochloride (welbutrin) , an antidepressant of the aminoketone class, is chemically unrelated to tricyclic, tetracyclic, or other known antidepressant agents. Its structure closely resembles that of diethylpropion; it is related to phenylethylamines.

Seizures:
Bupropion is associated with seizures in approximately 0.4% (4/1000) of patients treated at doses up to 450 mg/day. This incidence of seizures may exceed that of other marketed antidepressants by as much as fourfold.

Precautions:
Agitation and Insomnia: A substantial proportion of patients treated with bupropion experience some degree of increased restlessness, agitation, anxiety, and insomnia, especially shortly after initiation of treatment.

Psychosis, Confusion, and Other Neuropsychiatric Phenomena: Patients treated with bupropion have been reported to show a variety of neuropsychiatric signs and symptoms including delusions, hallucinations, psychotic episodes, confusion, and paranoia.

Activation of Psychosis and/or Mania: Antidepressants can precipitate manic episodes in Bipolar Manic Depressive patients during the depressed phase of their illness and may activate latent psychosis in other susceptible patients. Bupropion is expected to pose similar risks.

-------------------------------------

Imipramine (Tofranil) is a tricyclic antidepressant with general pharmacological properties similar to those of structurally related tricyclic antidepressant drugs such as amitriptyline and doxepin.

Side effects :
CNS:
Frequently: Tremors. Occasionally: drowsiness, fatigue, insomnia, dizziness, headache, paresthesia (numbness, tingling sensation, symptoms suggestive of peripheral neuropathy).

Behavioral:
Occasionally: Confusional states (especially in the elderly) with hallucinations, disorientation, delusions, anxiety, agitation, restlessness, nightmares, hypomania, mania, exacerbation of psychosis, decrease in memory, feeling of unreality. In isolated cases: Feeling of weakness, aggressiveness.

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Ritalin (methylphenidate) adverse effects are the same as amphetamine and cocaine ! Every thing from psychosis , heart damage to formacation ( sensation of bugs or worms crawling on/under skin )

This JAMA/AMA link has an interesting quote : "We know that social interactions can increase dopamine receptors,"

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cach...2-1.html pay attention ritalin&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

edit: Welbutrin is not a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) , it is a Dopamine reuptake blocker .

 

an interesting side note is that welbutrin is now being marketed as a pill to help stop smoking:

Zyban
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/addiction/archive/7.html



thanks for the information- very helpful! I'm surprised that Tofranil side effects doesn't have "heart rate irregularities" listed, as I used to have to get blood tests and EEG's every few months while I was on it. Maybe it was to check for the develoment of psycosis-like neuro-patterns, and not for my heart, as my Mother had told me...

 

River , the moderators removed my post several days ago . I speculate it was because I had included additional PDR quotes ( these are available on many different web sites ) .
You are correct about concerns regarding the heart when using Tofranil .

 

An opinion

I don't really know. Mabye it is when your ex-girlfriend catches you drinking MIller High Life on her roof screams and then tells you to go home. Home. And when you get there you pop open a bottle Jack Daniels and proceed to clean your gun underneath a gently swinging naked bulb. Pills help. They make you go outside and walk into the the dense weeds surrounding your trailer where you freeze in awkward posistions in order to convince yourself time has frozen. And it works too, until your boss calls at 7am to ask where his ambulance driver is. A tinny little voice in the mind that is. But hey, who knows? It could be anything.