What are poltergeists?

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Magical Realist, Feb 6, 2015.

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  1. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    And once again you have no idea what you're talking about.

    Phenomena that are proven to physically exist within reality are, by definition, scientifically accepted phenomena.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Being able to detect spirits makes it scientific. "Scientific" does not mean we can explain everything. Take gravity; we don't know everything about it. But the study of gravity is quite firmly within the realm of science.

    Likewise, once we can detect "spirits" through some repeatable method, the study of "spirits" will go from the realm of scary campfire stories to accepted science, as many other formerly "woo" topics have done.
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Spirits may not have physical existence. Like thoughts, time, laws of physics, etc. And yet they would still be real beings.
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Uneducated rubbish! We do not know what DM or DE is...We can describe gravity, but we cannot explain the why or how......
    You are as usual grasping at straws.
     
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You don't need to know spirits exist thru some scientific repeatable method. In fact we already know they exist thru direct investigations and experiences. Science isn't the sole determiner of what is real iow. There are other ways to access reality than just science. Hence, knowing spirits exist, as I do myself, doesn't make them fall into the purview of science. They transcend physical reality, like mathematical equations, ideas, values, information, and laws. Like the mind itself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  9. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    I knew you'd say that, because I'm
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Until we do, the possibility lies totally within the realms of illusions, delusions, and ancient folk lore.
    No we don't. Science may not be the only determiner, but it certainly is the only reasonable logic determiner.
    No, in actual fact all I see are delusions, illusions, gullibility, and confirmation bias.
     
  11. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    One can not prove something to exist without it conforming to our current level.
    Thus if we can prove it, it must conform. And it must therefore not be paranormal.
    Please provide a link to peer reviewed papers that clearly demonstrates the truth of the existence of "spirits"? That clearly and unambiguously proves spirits to exist, with no possible alternative and more mundane explanation?
    You claim it, you need to support it.
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong..there are a lot of things proven to exist that don't conform to our current level of scientific knowledge. Gravity is one. Consciousness. Mathematical laws. Nonlocality. And the paranormal.

    LOL! So you want scientific confirmation of the paranormal when I said we know it exists without scientific confirmation? Here's confirmation of it. How about 3,287 paranormal investigation sites and their evidence?

    http://www.paranormalsocieties.com/
     
  13. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    There is no evidence.

    Just hearsay, confirmation bias and wishful thinking.

    If it was real evidence then it would already be science fact and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you several times already.
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    And I'm pretty sure I told you already that scientists wouldn't touch paranormal phenomenon with a 10 ft pole for fear of mockery and losing their careers. In the big science club you conform to convention, or you are kicked out.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    By that standard, Santa Claus exists. Fortunately most people have higher standards.
    Science is just a tool; a tool we use to understand reality and determine which hypothesis is most likely to be correct.
    Yep. And your belief in spirits is every bit as real to you as a child's belief in Santa Claus is to them. (They even see him!) To your point, neither needs to understand science, because it is a belief, rather than an attempt to understand reality.
    A scientist who could prove spirits exist would win a Nobel prize, guaranteed. They live to discover such things - even if what they discover angers people whose beliefs the new science contradicts.
     
  16. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Why on Earth would you think that if you weren't paranoid or stupid?

    Science would LOVE to have conclusive impossible-to-ignore evidence of things like psychics, aliens, bigfoot, ghosts, Loch Ness monsters, and so on.

    It would be like the discovery of DNA, or relativity, or electricity, and so on. Just imagne the breakthroughs that would be made in fields such as palentology, xenobiology, neuroscience, and everything else.

    It would open up a whole new area of the Universe to learn everything about, fields of study to gain a deeper understanding of how reality works. Science really, really, really, wants to know more about how reality and the Universe works.

    Forget Einstein, Newton, Hawking, Darwin and all of those guys - the person who proves the existence of life after death will become a million times more famous!

    The idea that science doesn't want to know things is ridiculous.
     
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  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    It's just the way science is. It's a prestige or status thing. Certain areas you research to get grants and publishers. Others you stay away from. The paranormal is one of those areas.
     
  18. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, because you're OBVIOUSLY an expert on science and the scientific method!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So now YOUR going to insult me? What is it with you people? Can't you debate calmly and rationally?
     
  20. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, except your idea of "debating" is sticking your fingers in your ears going "la-la-la I can't hear you".
     
  21. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Don't you mean "you're"?

    You really don't give the impression that you care much for the scientific method as it is, so take a few licks and come back with rigor.
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    In other words, you're frustrated that you can't persuade me of your position. But that's not really MY problem is it now?
     
  23. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Just because you can't be persuaded, doesn't mean you're right.

    It just means you're incapable of being reasoned with.
     
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