Wether Jesus existed...

The last post I sent on this thread was sent twice, the first one was half baked somehow and didn't get all of my responses and bolding. Ignore that one. The second one has the quotes in bold and my responses in regular text. Sorry if there was any confusion.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I quote:
"You have a body of text claiming the abrogation of natural law, unattested before the 2nd century, copied, redacted, harmonized and, where deemed necessary, purged as heresy."

Now tell me you didn't mean to indicate the whole of the Bible is one big lie. If you didn't: exactly which parts were "copied, redacted and harmonized" and which weren't? Have you even read the parts that were "purged" (they are available, you know) - and honestly asked whether you disagree with their exclusion? If you do disagree with their exclusion - on what grounds? Because they make the "stories" sound so much more incredible? That plays right into you hand, doesn't it?

Doctrine is formulated from, and only from, Scripture. Before I make any more assumptions - are you saying that we don't know what Jesus or God said because we can't trust the sources?

Or if you are saying we shouldn't trust the sources, on what grounds? That they contain miracles? The purpose of Jesus' miracles were to authenticate him to his witnessess. It worked, and therefore served their purpose. They weren't supernatural events that came out of nowhere.

The Jews expected their messiah to perform three miracles that weren't ever performed before: The healing of a leper (Luke 5, 17) giving sight to one born blind (John 9), and driving out of a demon of muteness (Matthew 12).

Since you will not believe by miracle, no miracle will be sufficient to cause you to believe. The testimony (your "stories") should be sufficient, because they do not cross any natural laws themselves.

John 3:11
I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

This is certainly true out of context - in the present time, with you. Why shouldn't it have been true within context, along with his testimony itself?

I won't look for posts that confirm this, but correct me if I'm wrong: You believe that the accuracies that place the New Testament within a real, contextual Roman and Greek world, indicating sometimes places and names that were previously thought to be fictional but later discovered, you believe they point to nothing more than fatual references in, say, Anna Karrenina.

At what stage do you stop believing the factual information provided, and start believing everything else (the "body of text")are lies or fabrications?

In short: do you, or do you not, believe that these witnesses were truthful?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Your ignorance is getting tiresome, Jenyar. Supply Judaic sources.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

There is a Jewish saying that goes: "when there is no prophet, there are no signs".

The three messianic miracles. This is a discussion of the first one (healing of a leper).

My source is The messianic miracles of Jesus. The destinction between natural and messianic miracles seem to be Mishnaic (based on Jewish oral law), part of the Midrash (interpreted) Torah and is Rabbinic (Rabbinic Judaism believe Oral law has authority over scripture). It is therefore probably not explicitly written anywhere (at least not anywhere I can find on the Internet). But you can see from the example above how they might have come to the conclusion easily enough.

Calling me ignorant presumes you know better. How is your knowledge of pre-1st century Judaism?

PS. It seems the Hebrew Bible refers to the other two miracles as being characteristic of the messianic age. Also notable is that Isaiah seems to indicate that God himself will do these things:

Isaiah 35
5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened
and the ears of the deaf unstopped.
6 Then will the lame leap like a deer,
and the mute tongue shout for joy.

The reason why these three were considered specifically messianic, is that they were prophesied, but had not come to pass in the Old Testament or any other Jewish tradition.

11 and the Lord will perform marvellous acts such as have not existed, just as he sa[id] 12 for he will heal the badly wounded and will make the dead live, he will proclaim good news to the meek (Qumran 4Q521)

 

PARAPHRASE DAMN YOU!!!!!