Were Adam and Eve the first people?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Beer w/Straw, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Tiassa

    In this thread thread you alluded to the idea that I was mistaken to bring up the Quran as a source for the idea that Adam and Eve were not the first-ever, human beings.
    If this is so, can you explain why?

    Jan.
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    OK here's a guess
    The garden of Eden story harkens back to the dim hunter gatherer days.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Privilege is......

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    Privelidged isn't......

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  7. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    So, to be clear, are you saying that the writers of the Bible didn't think birds were living?
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Was Eden a place or a person?
    Why was it called a garden as it seems the are no references to cultivating, it sounds more like a park.

    Maybe it was really the "Garden of Adam" and someone made a spelling mistake when the oral myth was finally written down.
    Was it fenced? Did God put the serpent there to keep down the mice or did it just sneak in...
    Alex
     
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    as/re the "book" much seems to be metaphor
    So
    Eden was the whole earth (at least the part the people of the "book" were familiar with)
    The standard archaeological paradigm is/was that the hunter gatherers were much more communal/tribal.
    And---so the paradigm goes their head deity was female.....
    and they spent much less time getting what was needed for their sustenance.
    and then
    we have agriculture which is/was more labor intensive and a more solitary labor---
    much was lost in the transition.
    and that loss is reflected in the aforementioned story.

    (justaguess)
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    As I understand it, God created (planted even) the "garden" specifically for Adam, white picket fence and all, so that he could practise tilling the earth.
    https://www.allaboutgod.com/garden-of-eden.htm

    Seems to me that this passage suggests that elsewhere on earth the conditions were less than ideal, if God had to specially create a garden and create fancy trees or natural springs.

    Moreover, this must have happened before God made Eve, else he would have to place both in the garden, no? This thing gets very confusing......

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  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    How curious
     
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  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Poetic liberty.....

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  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    That makes sence.
    I have worshipped a few females in my time☺
    Alex
     
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  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    And creation...would it not make more sence to have male and female gods producing the universe...particularly if it is as it is linked to the notion of a cosmic egg...but then shouldnt the Gods be chooks (chickens).
    Alex
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Cosmic egg-----Plasma!
    I just got a vision of a cosmic omelette.......

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  16. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    I would love to comment on other posts here but they are steeped in ..... preconceptions. Textual criticism is how myths should be discussed not ideology. That's just my humble opinion.
    There is no evidence for a Jewish State before the "exile". My personal hypothesis is that the garden in question here is a reference to the hanging gardens of Babylon. This was one of the ancient wonders and, in my opinion, inspiration for paradise.

    Nothing in the Hebrew or Greek text can be dated before 6th century BCE. Job and Enoch being the only exceptions (10th century BCE at earliest, 3rd century BCE latest).

    The garden here, in my opinion, is the garden that inspired the tranquility of God. The hanging gardens of Babylon.

    The text itself says that Ezra "reproduced" the text of the Torah after the "exile" according to the oral tradition he was familiar with.

    And Ezra the priest brought the Torah before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month
    ” (Nehemiah 8:2)(Ezra 7-10)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I read someplace the garden was run by the gods and this is where they kept the humans they had genetically manipulted ( so as to work for these gods) and that the word paradise met "the place the gods kept the animals" ...presumably the human workers.
    I think that has its origin from a Summarian clay tablet.
    All these myths are interesting indeed.
    Alex
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    True but it seems there was an acceptance of a common identity...and States were probably only city states outside of Eygpt and maybe Summaria ... interesting ... so where historically can we go back to...in your view.
    I dont know specifics.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  19. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    heh ... sounds like an episode of 'Stargate SG-1" Inspiration indeed
     
  20. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    There is no archeological evidence for a Jewish identity, tribal or otherwise, before 538 BCE. After Persian conquest of Mesopotamia.

    There are a few mystic talisman found in the hebrew text dated before that but nothing to indicate a nation, state or tribe prior the the times stated. A cult at best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    One of the Summarian poems ( assuming for a moment its not a con which I believe of everything really) talks about flying craft and other stuff that makes you wonder just how early scifi started.
    Alex
     
  22. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Your assumption is warranted. Text was created for administrative purposes (inventory, payments due, payments payed). I like the idea that sci-fi was the next incarnation of the written word. The Oracle bones of the Shang dynasty (Ancient China) are a testament to both.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The Garden of Eden that God built for Adam was the "hanging gardens of Babylon"?
    Who built Babylon? God?
    Garden of Eden was in East Mesopotamia, not West.
    https://www.ancient.eu/babylon/
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Babylonian-empire.html

    I find it peculiar that the further back you go in history, the more human endeavors are attributed to gods and the holier people seem to become. They could even talk with the gods and the gods could talk with them according to scripture.

    This linguistic ability seems to have been lost altogether, on both sides.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

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