Were Adam and Eve the first people?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Beer w/Straw, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You are once again confusing religion with science. There are plenty of scientists who believe in religion. Successful scientists who are theists have perfected the art of compartmentalization - suspending belief in one area while working in another.
    That makes zero sense.
    Of course. But suicide bombers who are promised paradise commit their crimes believing they will go to paradise.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    No I’m not.

    It makes perfect sense.

    More like brainwashed, coerced, or a promise to financially take care of their family.

    Either way they fall under one of the many real reasons people go so far as to commit suicide.

    The original suicide bombers, the kamikazes, were atheists.

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    Jan.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Which has nothing to do with this thread, of course - even if it were an honest response to the poster addressed, which it is not.

    But none of Jan's posts here have any actual basis in the thread topic - not even the ones better dressed in relevant language.

    That post is in furtherance of Jan's agenda here - using any pretext available to post like that.

    And in that respect, Jan is a typical oA theist posting on a science forum.
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    So, what reason do you have to believe Adam and Eve is historically accurate?
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Of course they were☺
    Still talking thru your hat☺
    Alex
     
  9. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    ''Reason''? None but his Adamancy the bible is true.
     
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  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You said "Darwinists believe that there is nothing after the death of the body." You are confusing science (Darwinism) with religion (a belief in life after death.) They are not the same. You are confused.
    To you, perhaps.
    They were Shinto. From the book Kamikaze: Japan's Suicide Gods:

    "The fact is that innumerable soldiers, sailors and pilots were determined to die, to become eirei, that is 'guardian spirits' of the country. ... Many Japanese felt that to be enshrined at Yasukuni was a special honour because the Emperor visited the shrine to pay homage twice a year. Yasukuni is the only shrine deifying common men which the Emperor would visit to pay his respects."

    It is much easier to convince people to kill themselves in the name of God.
     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    @bilvon,

    The goal of crippling or destroying large numbers of Allied ships, particularly aircraft carriers, was considered by the Empire of Japan to be a just reason for sacrificing pilots and aircraft.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze


    Jan.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Correct. Religion was used to make it easier to talk pilots into doing that. You claimed they were atheists, which is dead wrong.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    They appear to have had no God - unless, as is common among Western anthropologists and sociologists, you nominate any nearby spiritual or supernatural entities as "gods" of some kind.

    There are other atheistic martyr traditions - the Tamil suicide bombers, self-immolating Buddhist monks from nontheistic sects, etc.

    Jan is of course in bad faith, as when he quotes Scripture to his purpose.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Even though the bible is totally false

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  15. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Shinto IS a religious belief. It is a form of ancestor worship. Their attitudes towards war can be compared to the fictional Klingon philosophy; "To die in battle is to die with honor. To be defeated in battle is to die without honor."

    In point of fact, the kamikazes died in honor in accordance to this philosophy. If they had not fulfilled their mission then suicide using a Seppuku was the only way to regain even the slightest bit of honor, for themselves, their ancestors and their Emeror. Not unlike the Klingon use of the Hegh'bat for the same reasons. So no, kamikazes were not performing suicide, they were fulfilling their duty for the honor of all.

    Not unlike the young men first to storm the beaches of France on D-Day. They were not committing suicide. They too were performing their duty with honor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. The religious aspect allowed them to more easily believe that - and to more easily be talked into such one-way missions.
    Well, there's a bit of a difference there. If a soldier storms the beach and survives, he is successful. If a kamikaze pilot survives, his mission is a failure.
     
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  17. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Heh ... That is true. Then again, Shinto was not the Alliances philosophical motivation. They saw failure as a reason to commit suicide. The success of their mission, in their mind, was not an act of suicide. That was my point.

    Flying a plane into a civilian building would have been considered dishonorable to the Japanese. So .... apple and oranges.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  18. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Even Saul, the first "legendary king of Israel" would have rather died by his own hand than suffer defeat by the hand of his enemies.

    1 Samuel 31:4
    4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
     
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So consciously, willingly, flying a plane into a ship, knowing that you are definitely going to die, is not committing suicide?

    Sure, you can attach labels to it like, honour, heroism, and martyrdom, but nevertheless, it is suicide.

    And let’s not mince words here.
    They were atheists, because they did not believe in God. Their reasons for flying into planes, was purely to cripple and destroy. Boom!

    Jan.
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Denial, and rejection.
    You do not care for truth, fact, or, evidence.
    You will believe anything , if your mind can use it to defend you worldview, cloaked head to toe in nothing.
    Look out folks, the empower hasn’t got any clothes on. His mind is altogether as naked as the day that it was born.
    Thanks for showing us the true face of atheism.

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Suicide, hmm?

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    Would it not benefit the species if every man voluntarily committed suicide for sex i.e. the woman eating his head of during intercourse like a praying mantis?

    I think it could solve all the worlds problems.

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  22. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Jan Post 216 referring to the Kamikazes
    Your definition of atheist seems to be a person who does not believe in your god.

    Am I misunderstanding your view of atheism?​

    The Kamikazes believed in some Japanese religion. Harakiri (suicide) was a religious rite.

    BTW: I am an atheist, who is fond of the Greek pantheon. I like the concept of gods with various human emotions. Examples:

    Zeus the philanderer & Hera the jealous wife.

    Aphrodite, Hera, & Athena competing for a golden apple to be awarded by Paris.​

    If a law was passed requiring belief in some god or gods, I would worship Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Not if you can convince a person it is their duty. Religion helps with that.
    Sure. But again, religion helps convince people to do it.
    They believed in several gods. They were religious. Shinto is a religion. It was a very useful religion, because it helped the government convince gullible young soldiers that it was their duty to kill themselves to stop the Allies.

    Trying to get out of that by claiming that a religion is not a religion, and the followers of that religion are atheists, is pretty much the definition of "mincing words." Congratulations! You have once again led with an accusation, then in the very next line, demonstrated that you are guilty of what you have just accused other of. Seems to be a pattern.
    Coming from you, the guy who claims:

    That Adam and Eve weren't the first people per the Bible
    That Santa Claus is real
    That I am an atheist

    That is very funny! Thanks for the laugh.
     
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