# "We" stole the Indian's land.... Oh really ?

Discussion in 'History' started by Cazzo, Oct 4, 2008.

1. ### GustavBannedBanned

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nonsense
a reasonable middle ground is not unattainable
there are mechanisms in place...petition for redress of grievance etc
some successes, some failures, not kneejerk naysaying

Having said yes to Japanese Canadians, the government cannot make a credible case for saying no to another group. A mixture of noble sentiments and crass multicultural politics produced the previous decision, and that same mixture beckons the government again. For better or worse, the country will be forced quite literally to pay for its history for many years to come. (link)

so?
an apology or a billion bucks
pay the fuck up

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5. ### GustavBannedBanned

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12,575
again
you assume outrageous demands for redress and compensation
perhaps a safe assumption but still indeed one

7. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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Well, SAM, a good start would be to use the billions that we send to India every year ...that would help a lot, don'tcha think?

Baron Max

8. ### PandaemoniValued Senior Member

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3,631
Redressing grievances from the 1940's is far easier to do because many of the victims are still alive and for those who are not their lineal descendants are still likely to be relatively manageable in number. Sure you can come up with a bullshit number that is not based on anything, but that number is as likely to be "zero" out of a sense of forgiveness as "a billion bucks" out of sense of retribution. And who gets that billion bucks anyway?

If you calculate damages the way the law does (i.e. with an eye towards properly compensating people for their injuries, not punishing the wrongdoer because you dislike them) and look at addressing grievances from the 1820's, not one single victim will be alive. Assuming an average of let's say 5 living descendants per 30-year generation (which is on the low side for the 19th and early 20th century, and a bit high for the generation born after 1940), *each victim* could easily have more than 15000 descendants. If the grievance was 1850, under those assumptions you'd expect 3125 descendants. In 1880, he should have about 625 living descendants, and so on. Then, you have to determine how to allocate it amongst his thousands of descendants...pro rata? What if one descendant can show that by will all the victims property was left to his ancestor and none of the other siblings? What about the descendants that are not full-blooded. Does Jane Smith get a full share because she's 1/16th blooded? A 1/16th share? No share?

In general, first you have to figure out who the victim was. Then you can to figure out what his injuries were. Did he get sick in or on the trip to the new lands the U.S. sent him to? Might he not have gotten sick had he stayed home untroubled by the U.S.? What other injuries were there? What was the value of the lost property that there is no documentation for? How do we even begin to guess? Then you have to determine how much his injury was worth. Then, there's the matter you have to determine how to allocate it amongst his thousands of descendants, many of whom are not full-blooded. Does Jane Smith get a full share because she's 1/16th blooded? A 1/16th share? No share?

Does the U.S. get due process for this law suit? Evidence is going to be hard to come by, so who has the burden of proof? If the issue is the lack of evidence. what about the doctrine of laches? Does that apply? Why not?

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you!

/smile

18. ### GustavBannedBanned

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12,575
A Proclamation

I, Gustav AKA The Horse That Gallops Across the Prarie, the Most Distinguished and Pre-eminent Member of the Chumash Casino Caucus, Sciforums Chapter, Demand an Apology from the Genocidal Caucasoid Members of this Board on Behalf of the Indigineous Peoples of the World

19. ### GustavBannedBanned

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12,575

APOLOGIZE, BITCH! LEAVE INDIA! GALLOP BACK TO YOUR GODDAMN STEPPES AND YURT
THE MIGHTY AND NOBLE DRAVIDA RACE DEMANDS IT!

20. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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Down, boy!

Tameez se baat karo!:bugeye:

/ nose in the air.

21. ### PandaemoniValued Senior Member

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It was more an expression of the the fact that apologies are free, and was made facetiously in any event (hence the "Who cares?").

22. ### PandaemoniValued Senior Member

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The harm caused to indigenous peoples certainly involved a wealth transfer from someone in some magnitude to someone else. That said the transferors are long dead. the amount unknown, the transferrees are long dead, and there is no evidence that a randomly selected white guy will have been a benerficiary of that transfer, even indirectly.

Paying "damages" makes sense. Taking money from someone who may or may not owe it to make a payment to another to whom it may or may not be owed, is a waste. The person being forced to make the reparations payment should tell his descendents to wait 100 years then sue your descendents for reparations, for the money you took from him.