We need the look of other eyes

We need the look of other eyes



Do you remember the film "Cast Away" with Tom Hanks? In this film, a man was stranded on an island for years. He was completely alone, there were no other people there.
In the leftovers of the cargo, he found a volleyball ball, drew a face on it, and called it Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson then accompanied him in everything the man did on the island.
***

I was thinking about how important the Other is for our Self. How important it is for a human to have other humans around. We need dialogue -- or we lose our sense of Self.

The company of others seems to be crucial for our identity.

How do we maintain our identity?
How do we maintain our identity *with* the presence of others, and *in* the presence of others?

Could one go and live all by oneself, completely cut off from the rest of the world -- and stay alive and well?



Please discuss, make comments.

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I suppose, to have an identity or better individuality, you need other people. Of course, you could survive alone but I seriously doubt that
you´ll stay sane.

One will turn asocial if he never have others around, this person might also feel frightened because he/she is all alone.
Also, I think humans need someone to talk to. I don´t know why, but it is that way. Humans have the natural urge to speak about something to someone or something. Because of that, people talk to all kinds of things, their pets, their plants and whatever else they like. We cannot exist alone, it is not in our nature to do so.

 

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Well, personally I do just fine having conversations with myself.

Should probably be in Human Science, dontcha think?

 

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One of my greatest desires is to have an Other with which I can share everything. But, would this then just be more of myself?

Perceptions can be altered, and negated. The sense of self and not-self is more defined in our minds.

Is this really true? or is it what society and tradition tell us? One of the amazing things about humans is the amount of diversity in the species. I imagine it's entirely possible for a human group to exist where the sense of self is inconceivably different than ours.

Did the thousands of years of our history happen the way they did because that's how humans are, or because that's one way humans can be?

 

I am not so sure about that. It may be possible.
But after all, language and society only exist because humans needed conversation and company. Otherwise, they would not have created it in so many different places.

 

Destiny is set. Because of fate, humans can't be any other "way" than what they are/have been/will be.

 

Humanity is social. Humans, early humans, and almost all primates, survive because we're social. It's our biological imperative to be social; natural selection weeds out the anti-social.

 

you mean the past is set? destiny refers to the future. and what way are humans?

anyway, i think that people need other people to keep in touch with reality. for instance, i might be pondering one day, and come up with an idea that i think is pretty f***ing spiffy. so i go and tell someone my idea, and they either say "yeah that sounds right." or "are you retarded or something?" in any case i suppose that thought leads to communication. but it's early, and i'm messed up.

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Rosa, congrats on the thread.

A little story about a friend,

About 6 years ago Mat ( Mathew) suffered what is normally referred to as a nearvous breakdown. He ended up in a catatonic state. When he came too he had very little memory of who or what he was. He remembered his language skills but very little of anything else.

The doctors were not very helpful but Mat being the smart arse that he is got every person he knew to tell him everything they could remember about his prior life. He fed off their memories, and over about 6 months his memory and sense of self was almost fully restored.


The point that I wanted to make is that we do not and can not exist in isolation, our memories are shared and so are our thoughts.

In the film Castaway, Tom Hanks created an entity (Mr. Willson) that he could reflect off and share his memories with. This survival skill allowed him to survive in relative isolation with out permanent damage to his personna.

And if a true story is a credit to the castaway.

I think there are many instances in history where persons in severe situations will create a friend they can turn to as a way of survival.

The film "Nell" also shows this attribute. If someone can recall this film maybe they would like to comment?

 

QQ,

You metioned some extreme situations where one is bound to depend on other people.

I am wondering about simple, everyday life.

Thanks.

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Rosa I tend to think that what we see in the extreme is a demonstration of what occurrs all the time.

People are like a mirror to us, ( we are made in his image ) our reflection in a mirror is made in our image.

 

It was simple, everyday life. His.

Also, simple, everyday life hardly describes being cut off from all social contact, I should think.

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Personally, as you well know, I am of the belief that self-awareness comes as a direct result of the awareness of others. It's a complex web that has built up over all our past generations. Social hierarchy within a society of ever-increasing complexity has led to the large size and functionality of our brain.

There are people who don't need a lot of social interaction to increase their own sense of well-being and self-respect, but most people need others to allow them to think of themselves as opposed to the other, as a mirror by which you can judge yourself.

Picture if you will, a man (or woman) totally locked away from contact with any living thing for 50 years. And then someone else appears on the island. How is he to differentiate between the newcomer and the phantoms of the self that have arisen in the absence of others?

Now, imagine this, the last man (or woman) on earth. His mother died during childbirth. His father was long dead by that time. This person has absolutely no contact with another human being. Somehow, miraculously, the child survives. What would he make of himself? Would he think that he was a strange version of the other wildlife that he sees about him? Would he emulate that wildlife in his actions? Would he "jack in" to their social structure? I think the answer is yes. I have heard stories of children raised by dogs and wolves and the like. I always thought they were myths, but recently I read an article about a kid in Brazil that was raised by feral dogs. I'm sorry, no link. And you can dispute it if you want, it won't hurt my feelings. I have no emotional attachment to the story.

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But it is interesting. I wonder what his self-awareness was like.

Now, for the last though experiment. What about the last animal on earth? Nothing but him and plants. Imagine how he would try to emulate the plant species of his environment. Imagine as he most likely fails and dies a miserable death.

 

The past was once future, remember?

I was speaking of human actions and behavior at certain points in time.

 

That film was quite nice... but the only thing wrong is that the eyes on the ball did not have the "look" of a real human eye... you doncht get the feeling you get by looking at a human eye when looking at a ball with eyes ...

 

That's true -- but the man had no other choice there on that island.
Also, the "face" appeared by accident: he wounded his hand, then threw the ball in anger, and there were blood (!!) marks on the ball. It was after that that he considered it a face.
When that first face washed off, he drew a new one -- with blood again.

It's the blood that, on a sublime level, makes the face on the ball more real.

 

It is possible that Mr Wilson provided a stable anchor for Tom Hanks. Wilson never changes but Tom Hanks wa going through enormous change, Mr Wilson provided a secure personna that provided stability and insight.

 

And, I think the subconscious can do strange things. Truth is he didn't even need the ball to have an emotional attachment to a figment. But it played better on the screen having a physical object take the place of a mental phantom.

Edit: Excellent point, QQ. Wilson was the rock in the storm. Always calm, cool, and collected. But perhaps the story parted from reality a bit there. How many figments are so calm? Especially in such a chaotic state.

 

Invert nexus, you mentioned feral children. The film I talked of "Nel" is a movie about one such feral child case except that this child grew to the age of about 24 ( I think) before she was discovered. It's a complex story and she was not entirely alone, If you get the chance see it.

 

Thanks, I'll try to remember next time I'm at the video store. Is it based on a real story?

 

Nexsus I think Mr Wilson is a tribute to the personality and character of his creator, played by Tom Hanks. Who was a rather gifted person to start with if I am not mistaken.