We love Israel?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Glenn Greenwald poses the question regarding Thursday night's vice-presidential debate:

    I thought the Israel discussion in last night's debate was a bit over the top, even for American political pandering. From both a strategic and cultural perspective, Israel is an important consideration in American politics, but come on ... compared to American Jews, the Irish-American population is enormous, and at no time in the history of this nation did we substantially aid Ireland against British occupation as a matter of foreign policy. Make of that what you will, but think about it. Sure, it's just fine to "love" Ireland and all things Irish—even The Riverdance, if you must—but should that translate into support of atrocities and crimes against humanity? Because that's what our national "love" for Israel involves.

    • Is there any other country in the world where political candidates are customarily obliged to proclaim their "passion" and "love" for another country in a national election?

    • Other than Israel, is there any foreign country for which our presidential candidates are so obliged to proclaim their "passion" and "love"?​
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Greenwald, Glenn. "Salon Radio: L.A. Times' Tim Rutten on Ahmadinejad." Unclaimed Territory. October 3, 2008. http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/radio/2008/10/03/rutten/index.html
     
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  3. Axes Registered Senior Member

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    They arn't 'obliged' to, but they know it will help them with the Jewish electorat.

    See, the main reason Israel (and not other US allies like Ireland or the UK) is a term which more than once comes up in presidential debates, is because its a contentious issue. Ireland or the UK Isnt. Irish-Americans, if they felt their nation was under constant threat, would have made their voice heard, and as a result, Presidential candidates would give this issue no less weight than Israel.
     
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    Quite an assumption in the OP but it is par for the course.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    And?

    Do, please, elaborate, sir. You have my attention.
     
  8. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    They're pandering to Evangelical Christians, not Jews.
     
  9. Axes Registered Senior Member

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    If Ireland were an important issue with an equally sized electorat, you would have heard of it no less than Israel. Its simply a matter of public american interest.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    This and that

    And for essentially anti-Judaic purposes. I do agree with your point, sir.

    This is why Israel is so important to the Evangelical Christians. The Jews are mere tools of their larger plot. Of course, this is the problem with a religion that looks forward to the end of the world.

    Nonetheless, it is a very curious circumstance that Greenwald points out.

    • • •​

    As I said, "customarily obliged". Can you name for us the major U.S. presidential contenders over the last sixty years who advocated either the termination of American military support of Israel or called for prosecutions of Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians? How many federal political candidates over that period have even called certain Israeli actions "atrocities" or "crimes"?

    Additionally, please note Cheski's point; indeed, even I stand reminded on that count.

    Oh, and the occupation of Ireland was an important issue with an active constituency that dwarfs the American Jewish population. But we always, as a foreign-policy matter, sided with Britain's right to occupy the territory and oppress the people.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Goldberg, Michelle. "The Rise of Christian Nationalism". Speaker's Forum. KUOW. Original broadcast October 18, 2008. http://www.kuow.org/program.php?id=13646
     
  11. Axes Registered Senior Member

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    No, and neither have I seen a US president advocate the termination of an alliance for any of its other major US allies (UK, Australia, France), nor have they gone head to head over country's regional issues (Northern Ireland, Algeria).







    Not many, for the simple reason that its not popular with the average American citizen to go Israel-bashing, not due to the lobby, whos power is grossly overrated. Im not speaking only of Jews,or far right christians, but a good chunk of Americans sees support for Israel in a very positive manner. American politicians simply want to court this.






    You hit the nail right there. The US supported the UK not because of a hidden 'shadowy' British force holding congress by the balls, but rather because the UK was a US ally. Allso, you are mixing up things: Support for Ireland would have included the US abandoning a major ally (the UK), while Israel IS a major US ally, making it so much easyer to sustain support for it, especially considering the positive outlook on such an alliance by most Americans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2008
  12. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    palin is already an evangelist isnt she?
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    Yes.

    Her church apparently recently held a seminar about "Jews for Jesus".. she was in the audience if reports are correct.

    But it's okay, apparently. She has claimed to 'love Jews'. Whether she wants to convert you or not remains to be seen.

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  14. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Yeah, maybe she's not pandering if she already believes it.


    And to Tiassa

    Your post was accurate, the support Evangelicals while helpful...is dangerously scary. To help us in order to round us up and kill us is, well they deserve to be taken advantage of if they want to behave like that.

    And finally Bell
    Palin is out of step with modern American secular Jews, without a doubt. But secular Jews oppose Orthodoxy in almost all stances. Thus Palin is really in step with Orthodoxy more than secularism.
     
  15. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    But "We can't have another Holocaust!"

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    Am I the only one whose blood boils when I hear her say that over and over?
     
  16. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    probably.
     
  17. skywalker 3 @ T M 3 Registered Senior Member

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    Is she a religious fanatic? One of those nut cases who are waiting for armagadon and convert all jews to christianity? Is she a true republican?
     
  18. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Oh come on..

    Can't someone ever say,

    Australia is america's greatest ally.,

    I mean, Seriously, WE WERE WITH YOU IN EVERY SINGLE WAR!.
     

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