Water

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by thecollage, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. thecollage Registered Senior Member

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    Why not make water a fuel. If we separate the H from the O we have fuel and O for the air.
     
  2. spidergoat alien lie form Valued Senior Member

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    Takes energy to do so, therefore it's not a net energy gain, only a means of energy storage.
     
  3. Enmos Moderator

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    Also, you shouldn't release the oxygen. You can use it again to burn the hydrogen. It would be a waste to release it into the air.
     
  4. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Engineers perfecting hydrogen-generating technology
    WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Researchers at Purdue University have further developed a technology that could represent a pollution-free energy source for a range of potential applications, from golf carts to submarines and cars to emergency portable generators.

    The technology produces hydrogen by adding water to an alloy of aluminum and gallium. When water is added to the alloy, the aluminum splits water by attracting oxygen, liberating hydrogen in the process. The Purdue researchers are developing a method to create particles of the alloy that could be placed in a tank to react with water and produce hydrogen on demand.

    The gallium is a critical component because it hinders the formation of an aluminum oxide skin normally created on aluminum's surface after bonding with oxygen, a process called oxidation. This skin usually acts as a barrier and prevents oxygen from reacting with aluminum. Reducing the skin's protective properties allows the reaction to continue until all of the aluminum is used to generate hydrogen, said Jerry Woodall, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Purdue who invented the process.

    Since the technology was first announced in May, researchers have developed an improved form of the alloy that contains a higher concentration of aluminum.

    Recent findings are detailed in the first research paper about the work, which will be presented on Sept. 7 during the 2nd Energy Nanotechnology International Conference in Santa Clara, Calif. The paper was written by Woodall, Charles Allen and Jeffrey Ziebarth, both doctoral students in Purdue's School of Electrical and Computer Engineering.

    Because the technology could be used to generate hydrogen on demand, the method makes it unnecessary to store or transport hydrogen - two major obstacles in creating a hydrogen economy, Woodall said.

    The gallium component is inert, which means it can be recovered and reused.

    "This is especially important because of the currently much higher cost of gallium compared with aluminum," Woodall said. "Because gallium can be recovered, this makes the process economically viable and more attractive for large-scale use. Also, since the gallium can be of low purity, the cost of impure gallium is ultimately expected to be many times lower than the high-purity gallium used in the electronics industry."

    As the alloy reacts with water, the aluminum turns into aluminum oxide, also called alumina, which can be recycled back into aluminum. The recycled aluminum would be less expensive than mining the metal, making the technology more competitive with other forms of energy production, Woodall said

    More:

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/pu-eph082707.php
     
  5. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    This statement: "As the alloy reacts with water, the aluminum turns into aluminum oxide, also called alumina, which can be recycled back into aluminum. The recycled aluminum would be less expensive than mining the metal, making the technology more competitive with other forms of energy production, Woodall said." Is misleading.

    The term "more competitive" is a very relative thing. That's because turning aluminum back into aluminum metal takes a HUGE amount of electrical energy. Sure, the process would be cheaper because you don't have to mine it, but that hardly makes it an energy efficient way of producing hydrogen. In fact, I believe that direct electrolysis of water would be more efficient.
     
  6. thecollage Registered Senior Member

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    431
    how much energy does it take? why not use some energy to get the ball in motion and then use the H to continue the process?
     
  7. draqon Banned Banned

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    I shouldn't say this...but in future I have seen, many planets of many oceans full civilizations have turned their homelands into deserts, to use water as fuel. Earth will most likely fall the same fate.
     
  8. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    I can't give you an exact number because a lot of the energy used in producing the metal is required just to keep the mass molten! Pound for pound, aluminum takes much more energy to produce simply because the process is entirely electrical.

    So, in the end, you've wound up using much more energy in the entire process than you could ever get back from the hydrogen produced. In other words, it's a energy sink - not an energy producer.

    The only thing interesting about this particular process is that it's a novelty.
     
  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you shouldn't have said it. :D Because the only way to use water as an energy source is by splitting it and burning the hydrogen that come from that. And when that happens, you have your original water right back again. Basic chemistry 101.
     
  10. draqon Banned Banned

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    ...those civilizations went to outerspace, they did not use that water fuel on their planets...all that water went into space, leaving the planet dried up.
     
  11. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Lots of water in space. At least in the outer reaches of the solar system.

    That's where most of our water came from, you know.
    Comets.
     
  12. draqon Banned Banned

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    LUCK ... not all civilizations are that lucky.
     
  13. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Then where did their water come from. Early planets are generally hot and dry, yes? The water comes later after cooling?

    Perhaps your third eye has a cataract?
     
  14. draqon Banned Banned

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    I think you misunderstood me ... the civilization didnt just dry up and use up their planets resources such as water...they used up everything they could use up in their system and scattered it all around the galaxies as a result of their expansion to seek more resources.

    If you are trying to pinpoint me down to a cross of fallacies...the cross does not exist in the first place.
     
  15. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Then this response:
    Makes no sense.

    You're backpedaling.
     
  16. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Ho-hum. Anything's possible in science fiction. Have you ever tried just staying on topic instead of wandering off through the universe - fact OR fiction???
     
  17. draqon Banned Banned

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    :bugeye: Not all civilizations have water scattered in their star systems. Some are unfortunate enough to die on their own planets without having a chance of escaping...dying in the resources they themselves used up. Civilizations are different...their morals are different...environments are different...some are burnt by their own mother stars, some destroy themselves...others are envaded.
     
  18. draqon Banned Banned

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    well the facts are these...we can use all water of oceans on Earth...than travel to Mars and carry water there (even though there is water on Mars) ... or we can carry some water into space stations...than some water for many spaceships, until cosmic boom appears were many species travel all across the universe carrying something of Earth, until the next after I am awakened from my frozen state I look into a mirror and see the Earth stripped of everything...its oceans go...before the Sun ever got to increase the radius of the habitable zone beyond Earth path'. Fiction it is...but truth it holds within.
     
  19. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Sheesh! Like I said before: ho-hum. Care to do any more fantasizing while continuing to trash what was originally a serious topic???
     
  20. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    It would be very wise of us to carry the water with us from Earth to more habitable regions prior to the expansion of the sun, yes?
     

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