Was Yahweh in the bible Satan

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Newbiephilosopher, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Newbiephilosopher Registered Member

    When the Old Testament said God's holy spirit killed, I believe that book lost all credibility of spirituality.

    Then the New Testament and Jesus came along and Jesus preached that Satan was real so I was uncomfortable with that. Understanding a little on spirituality I don't believe evil is a spirit. Evil is more of a disease within nature that stems from hatred which is ferocious, intolerant and unthinking. Spirituality has no place for it other than understanding it and possibly healing it.

    So was Jesus really referring to the god of the Old Testament when he taught that Satan was real? Who Knows? However Jesus when he taught of Satan is re-enacting the same desert scene Moses had with Yahweh.

    If God where to really exist then I believe God can only have a good, holy divine spirit embracing all. I like to believe Jesus felt the same way too.
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Until God manifests we can only guess however guessing does not necessarily find truth.
    This bears repeating.
    If someone tells one lie their credibility vanishes.
    Has any author in the bible lied or made stuff up?
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  5. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member


    Take a long strip of paper and arm yourself with a dictionary.

    Find from the dictionary your best warm and fuzzy nice word

    Write that at the far left side of the strip.

    Next find the next nice warm and fuzzy word and write that to the right side of your first word.

    Keep going like that until you reach the word evil or even beyond.

    Every word on that strip represents a value judgement.

    To try and make it simple in this post each value judgement can be considered good or bad.

    Even those at the extreme ends.

    Example evil.

    You walk into a bedroom and kill a baby.

    Evil gets the tick. √

    At the trial you convince the jury you are from the future and just killed Hitler.

    You show the jury the evidence you brought with you.

    You are freed with heaps of thanks.

    Good gets the tick. √

    Returning to your own time you find a desolate landscape.

    You learn when Hitler didn't rise a even worse despot rose up, developed the atomic bomb first and bombed the shit out of the world.

    Evil gets the tick. √

    If you really want to test this hypothesis get two bowls.

    In one put one copy of each word.

    In the other put 50 copies of you killing Hitler and 50 copies of not killing.

    Ask a random selection of people to pick a random word.

    You pick a random kill / not kill.

    Ask this person if what word they picked matches which choice you picked. ie does it match with kill or not kill.

    Then offer them the alternative to your pick and ask if their choice stands or changes.

    You may have to cover a few thousand people to get a valid indication of overall views.

    Plot the views on graph you should find a bell curve.

    Long winded I know and I'm sorry for that.

    And it only covers a particular section of the post.

    I hope if you conduct the survey you learn value judgements are flexible as are beliefs in god and the devil.

    But as noted beliefs are not necessarily truth.
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  7. Newbiephilosopher Registered Member

    1st Corinthians 13

    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no records of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres...etc Paul

    This is how you know truth in the bible. Unless you actually practiced what the bible preaches it will always be no more than a book of fiction to you. Sometimes even fiction can teach you something but not spirit and truth.

    Both Yahweh and Satan added their own cruel touches to humanity. Satan mainly wants to beat you up badly while Yahweh wishes to enacted commandments against humanity, for example Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"; just one of his many cruel laws. They're both two peas in a pod having very little spirit and truth.
  8. Newbiephilosopher Registered Member

    Jesus is believed to be The Word of creation. Not my theology, the apostle John's scripture. Also you reap what you sow.
  9. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member


    OK. Don't understand but OK.
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

    Ridiculous. That is not a valid example of evil at all.

    Even if someone killed hitler because he would oppress and murder doesnt mean the killer who kills hitler is automatically exonerated from an evil nature. It is called a useful act he committed if the fucker murdered innocent people besides hitler. If one intentionally predates innocents even if just one and kills, they are still a murderer.

    Also, your scenario that another despot rose to power instead is called a mistake which can result in damage, not necessarily an evil intention. Thats what evil is which has "knowing" intent to harm devoid of ethical justification.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  11. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

    It seems I have fallen foul of what Humpty Dumpty dreads.

    Sorry about that Humpie.

    Humpty Dumpty reminds you to stick to his method.
    Poe stays quiet.

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  12. Newbiephilosopher Registered Member

    Truth is not a lie if it's truly what the heart sees, what the spirit and mind understands. Simply put to relate to the material world your mind must be like a garden and your thoughts are the seeds. You can plant flowers in your mind or you can plant weeds ( I've heard this from the material world). If you plant good thoughts in your garden(mind) you will excel in life or if you plant bad thoughts in your garden(mind) you will stumble through life. The reality closer to the heart. You reap what you sow.

    Sometimes we can't see over the walls that society creates and evil is the end product of always struggling with that. A useful tip; seek a spiritual life. Be kind and helpful to many. Be an example of goodness in the world.
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Don't be silly. Yahweh in the OT is the Jewish understanding of God, whereas the picture of God painted by Jesus - and St. Paul - in the NT is more recent and rather different. One evolved from the other. As far as I recall there is practically no description of Satan in the bible, but he obviously is nothing remotely like either the OT or NT depiction of God.
  14. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

    The seeds I plant in my garden belong to a wide variety of vegetables, fruit and flowers.

    I cover them with horses shit droppings and water them.

    I am rewarded with a bountiful harvest.


    The ideas I keep in my memory belong to a wide variety of disciplines, views and good memories.

    I cover them with reading books and watching educational documentaries.

    I am rewarded with a good life.

    Is that the sort of thing you are posting about in a convoluted method?


    As the frog croaks in the west a rainbow appears at a Chinese village.

    The dark lord of the vexatious fox prowls until the sun hides the moon.

    Humpty Dumpty gets out his quill, parchment and ink well.
    Poe opens WiFi on his Android.

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  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    That's nice.
    Inspiration can be found in many places.
    To put my point a little differently all these stories and beliefs are created by authors who are men writing about something they only guess about and so its all made up such that one could fairly call it fictional but until God manifests so we can hear from his lips what he thinks it is unreasonably to guess and take the writings as coming from God when they come from a man creating a story.
    Thanks for your comments.
  16. Newbiephilosopher Registered Member

    I am not referring to God; I am referring to Book of Revelation 13:15; And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.
  17. Newbiephilosopher Registered Member

    Truth is not a lie if it's truly what the heart sees. This may be beyond commonsense to you but then maybe you rather love your enemy. Jesus will save you. But remember, the bible is a fiction unless you practice what it preaches, then it becomes a non-fiction. Many people will cry Lord Lord and the lord will not have heard you. The fictional life is the bottomless black pit.

  18. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member


    Sound of post going clear over your head.




    Sound of your post hitting the ground.
  19. birch Valued Senior Member

    Are you sure you arent as delusional as religious folk? We all have our blindspots dont we? What you say is more akin to what people should do for a better society but it is false that good only begets good and evil for evil. Nor is it true people just reap what they sow. How old are you?

    Did hitler reap what he sowed? Even if he was killed it cant make up for the huge damage he did to millions of people.

    Did anne frank reap what she sowed? She suffered and died because of other peoples actions and prejudice impacted her life and she wasnt the only one and wont be the last either etc. This is common in life from the trivial to major issues in life. Life is usually not fair.

    If a unethical company who only cares about profit dumps toxins in the water supply which affects thousands and kills young and old or creates birth defects or cancer, did those victims reap what they sowed? Gee, they did not sow that but they reaped the consequences. This is so umbelievable that what others do affects others life including yours on a daily basis whether realized or not. I mean this simple observation happens multitudes of times in life to be common and would be obvious to anyone with a brain cell or honest with themselves rather than just noticing what coincides with their dogma whatever that may be.

    There is a saying: no man is an island.
    Essentially everyones actions/inactions affect others besides themselves.

    Reap what you sow, my ass.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    But our mind is not a garden and we don't plant the seeds of flowers in it.
    Can you explain what what you mean with out using anology?
    If there is one thing in particular that annoys me about the bible is the use of anology.
    Why can't they say what they mean and speak so there is little room for confusion.
    Take Relevations...really what is it supposed to mean...answer what ever you need to match a claim that a prophesy has been fulfilled.
    Specifics please.
  21. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member


    I get the fictional life.

    Don't believe it but get it.

    Get the black pit, dark and scary.

    Don't believe it but get it.

    Don't get the bottomless part.

    Was it made like that because if it was made with a bottom at some time it would fill up?

    Those in the pit, do they just keep falling when they get put in?

    Or do they float near the top and sink down as more are added?

    Humpty keen to learn.

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  22. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

    I got back to late to add this to the other post.

    I did work out why the pit had to be black.

    Nothing to do with making it scary.

    They could not afford a Infinitely long extension lead and an infinite number of light bulbs even if only 40 Watts LEDs.

    Plus the servicing cost for an on site electrician.

    How much overtime would he rack up if the bottom bulb blew?

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  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Christian belief is that an omnipotent supposedly good god created an extremely powerful being who is allowed to roam the world mucking with people in ways they cannot understand & deceiving them. Under those conditions it is impossible to determine which being is which. For all we can know, Satan caused the christian bible to be written in order to deceive us.


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