Discussion in 'History' started by zweio, Mar 22, 2005.
That is what people say about zionism. Then the thread gets closed.
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Heh, that's suprising.
Why? They're the ones that found his burned skeleton in Berlin.
Technically speaking, Zionism is national socialism for Jews. I support Zionism as it's the only way to have a healthy Jewish state.
On Hitler being Jewish:
One of the most frequently asked questions we receive is whether Adolf Hitler was Jewish or had ancestors who were. The idea seems to arise from the remote possibility that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Hitler's father, Alois, was registered as an illegitimate child with no father. Alois' mother worked in the home of a wealthy Jew and there is some chance a son in that household got the woman (i.e., Hitler's grandmother) pregnant. Adolf Hitler was not Jewish. Source: John Toland, Adolf Hitler, NY: Anchor Books, 1992.
After the war Hitler's former lawyer, Hans Frank, claimed that Adolf told him in 1930 that one of his relatives was trying to blackmail him by threatening to reveal his alleged Jewish ancestry. Hitler asked Frank to find out the facts. Frank says he determined that at the time Maria Schicklgruber gave birth to Alois, she was working as a household cook in the town of Graz. Her employers were a Jewish family named Frankenberger, who had a 19-year-old son. The son, according to Frank, was Alois's father and Hitler's grandfather--which would make the man who inspired the Holocaust one-quarter Jewish.
Frank's allegations have vexed historians ever since. The distinguished Hitler scholar Werner Maser was so irritated he claimed Frank made the whole thing up. Others think Frank was telling the truth but that the research he did for Hitler was faulty. It turns out that all Jews had been expelled from Graz in the 15th century and were not allowed to return until the 1860s; what's more, so far as can be determined, Maria Schicklgruber never lived in Graz. Frank's source for the Frankenberger yarn was a distant relation of Hitler's, who supposedly had letters exchanged by the Frankenbergers and Maria Schicklgruber. (It's claimed they gave her child support.) But neither the relative nor the letters have ever surfaced, and chances are it's all a crock.
Hitler "was" a Jew boy until he got denied acceptance into a Jewish art academy.
:bawl: Do not hate the fact that Hitler's father was Austrian SS during WW1 while his mother was Jewish. Hitler's dad was never there during his childhood years all the way to his adolescents so his mother was the only influence and her family was Jewish German. Hitler only communicated and socialized with his mother's side of the family so it is only natural for a young boy to learn the Jewish ways and be like that when it was all around him. He applied to a Jewish art academy and was denied because of his fathers bloodline being Austria-Germany and the fact that he was SS. This outraged Hitler and he vowed revenge on the snudy Jews with their noses in the air. They would shut the doors on him everywhere he went and he felt like they did not accept him,,so he got into office and power hungry for the ability to do the Jews like they did him.
William Shirer, in his definitive history, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, provides an exceptionally well researched family tree of the Hitler family, its derivatives and connecting family names.
It appears that the famly name of Hitler [variously recorded written as Hiedler, Huetler, Huettler] occurs on both sides of Adolph's family. His mother, Klara Poelzl, and father, Alois Hitler [formerly Schicklgruber] were second cousins and needed episcopal dispensation in order to be married. Hitler's grandmother on his mother's side and his grandfather on his father's side were named Hitler [or a variant of it].
Adolph's grandfather on his father's side was Johann Georg Hiedler. He married 47 year old Maria Anna Schicklgruber, a peasant from the village of Strones. Five years earlier she had borne an illegitimate child, a son, whom she named Alois. Shirer emphasises that Johann was most likely Alois's father but allows that there is no conclusive evidence to that effect. The son grew up as Alois Schicklgruber. Johann disappeared for thirty years only to reappear on June 6th 1876 at the age of eighty-four in the town of Weitra in the Waldviertel, spelling his name now as Hitler, to testify before a notary and three witnesses that he was the father of Alois Schicklgruber. The evidence suggests that this was done to enable Alois share in an inheritance from an uncle, a brother of Johann. It was with this brother/uncle that Alois had grown up. But this guardian spelt his name differently, he was styled Johann Georg von Nepomuk Huetler.
Johann von Nepomuk was the patron saint of the Czech people and some historians view this as suggestion that there was Czech ancestry in the Hitler family. The very idea would have enraged the Czech-hating Adolph. Johann Georg von Nepomuk Huetler was also the grandfather of Adolph's mother Klara Poelzl. Klara came from Spital, the ancestral village of the Hitlers. She was Alois's third wife and was twenty-five when she married her forty-eight year old husband on Jan 7, 1885.
Adolph was the third child of the marriage.
Alois's second marriage had been to a Franziska Matzelsberger. They had two children, Alois and Angela. The latter married a revenue official named Raubal. Some years after the husband's death Adolph brought Angela to Berchtesgaden as his housekeeper and it was probably during this period that he became aquainted with Angela's pretty blond daughter, Geli Raubal.
Mine is a Pan paperback, 11th printing 1976.
I always thought that Jewishness is defined by matrilineal succession, ie, if your mother is a Jew, you're a Jew. I'm surprised no one has clarified it here so far, but .. here you go ..
Who is a Jew?
A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.
It's that simple. Was Hitlers mother a Jew ? I think she was.
Edit - maternal to matrilineal
Lakon writes; "It's that simple. Was Hitlers mother a Jew ? I think she was."
If you have anything in evidence, other than a suspicion or a hunch, please tell us.
Many highly capable historians have done exhaustive investigations into the issue.
No, no suspicion or hunch - just what I thought I've gleaned over the years on the issue. I have no particular cause to 'suspect' either way. I would presume Jews are as capable of mass murder as Christians, Muslims, atheists ..
Searching the subject just now, brings a dizzying array of views, some quite radical - either way. Would be good to see a fair, impartail report on the matter.
Well does it really even matter....Majority agrees that hitler wasnot a jew but still all that matters is that he did the jewish holocaust and as far i have gathered after a lot of reading on the WW2,it was more of a political statemnt than a religious one.
I provided you with one from an expert source well qualified to dissert on the issue. Toland's biography [which I have also], given earlier by another member, agrees with Shirer's except about the probability of Alois' parentage. I think Weisenthal safely dealt with that, there was no Jewish family in the area at the crucial time. The records as Shirer quoted from them are still in existence as far as I know.
Artfully maintained skepticism becomes a little boring after a while. But of course, it is your right and choice.
Adolph was considered to be a brave and resourceful soldier in WW1. He was awarded the Iron Cross & was blinded for months by exposure to gas. His few friends among the unit he served with regarded him as something of a fanatical patriot determined to be perfect in everything he did down to the minutest detail. It required very little to provoke him into a tirade about the "Versailles traitors" and the ineffectual "Weimar criminals". So his real friends were quite thin on the ground.
One point though needs clarification. Hitler's repeated attempts to enter an art academy [he tried twice I think] failed because he just wasn't good enough. I've seen photos of his work and as a watercolour artist myself, I can confirm that IMHO he certainly wasn't. He did really want to be an architect but could never afford the fees. Perhaps that was one reason among others that he was so cordial with Albert Speer.
Adolph Hitler was raised in the traditional catholic religion of his region. His mother was devout and desired a career in holy orders for him. He sang in the local church choir and for a while went along with his mother's wishes. He never renounced his catholicism and was never excommunicated. He and the pope had polite and cordial communications to the point that the pontiff sent him a birthday card every year.
We don't know Adolf's dad because the spirit of the devil visited his mom. His birth was spiritually necessary. (My Opinion) anyone is capable of murder.
My neighbour said that whole thing about our garbage man.
I reckon Henry Kissinger fills the bill also.
But if you don't recognize Jewish customs, having a Jewish mother doesn't mean anything.
Spidergoat writes: It's that simple. Was Hitlers mother a Jew ? I think she was.
Klara Poelzl or Polzl born 12 August 1860 and died 21 December 1907 married Alois Hitler 7 January 1885 in Linz, Austria. She was 24 years of age at this time.
Adolph, born 20 April 1889, is listed as her fourth child of the eight children to which she gave birth with her husband Alois.
Her father was Johann Baptist Polzl and her mother Johanna Hiedler.
Either Hiedler's father Johann Nepomuk Hiedler or his brother Johann Georg Hiedler (who is presumed and accepted as the father) was the biological father of her later husband Alois. Moreover, Klara and Alois were first cousins once removed.
So the Hitler/Hiedler name was on both sides of Adolph's family at the grandparent stage.
It is well attested that Klara, Adolph's mother, was a devoted and devout roman catholic who took her two surviving children to church regularly.
There can be little doubt that Klara was not Jewish.
I am not Jewish and have no remit to defend or promote Jewishness in anyone.
Weisenthal has determined that all Jews were expelled from the region of the Waldviertal in the 16th century and none returned until late in the 19th century. Available records show absolutely no Jewish contribution to the Hiedler/Huetler/Hitler family.
What more evidence could be provided? Idle speculation is unproductive unless there is evidence to support it.
No, I didn't write that.
I beg your pardon Sidergoat. It was Lakon to whom I have already replied in earlier posts.
It is early a.m. here in the Philippines and I have been involved in posting all night. I am an Australian who has retired here.
I think it's time I retired to the loving arms of Morpheus and my girlfriend.
Once again, sorry for the mistake.
Separate names with a comma.