Warping of Spacetime

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by RajeshTrivedi, May 16, 2015.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,703

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    Just your usual modus operandi being as pretentious as possible, bring in ref herrings and not even understanding what the muon decay evidence is all about.
    Time dilation occurs...it's proven. BNSs do not exist. It's proven!
    Live with it.
     
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  3. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    No, I never write anything without understanding.....because I never follow others blindly like you.....You have responded without having an iota about the point I raised........for you time to google will come on this point soon...
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Of course you do! You have proven that yourself many many times on this forum.
    You lack the qualities Einstein had....
    [1] The ability to understand properly:
    [2] The desire to stand on the shoulders of giants to see further:
    [3] The ability to extract the worth while applications from each giant and construct something that would change science and the cosmos forever:
    [4] You lack any humility which was a trademark of the Einstein great man:
    [5] You are too stupid to admit when you are obviously and logically in error, which Einstein had no qualms about:
     
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  7. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    You are talking as if Einstein was your next door neighbor in your previous life of course.....now don't get an idea that I believe in re birth.....
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,703

    I have read plenty on the great man and his many qualities.
    Your only destiny Rajesh, once you grow tired of posting your diatribe on this forum to support your habit [inflated ego] will be to fade into oblivioun, not as a "would be if he could be" but more like a "never was"
     
  9. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    1,525
    I am giving it a rest................henceforth I will resist the temptation of responding to you...otherwise GOD knows my response will be worse than that of Q-reeus in other thread.....Long back some one told me that this Paddo is stuck to me like a leech.....I thought I could handle him, but it appears it is Paddoboy's job not to get handled. Tell the forum (not to me) Paddoboy, are you really a retired mechanic around 65-70 year old ?? Why TF you give so much heck to relativity at 70, when you know nothing ?
     
  10. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    The nature of spacetime is that it is relative. There is no warp within a single frame, since there is no relativity. Warp refers to measurable difference in Euclidean distance between two points ( in space or time) when two or more frames are involved: that is, when two or more coordinate systems are involved. In every case the relative frames (i.e. their coordinate systems) are projections of the reference frame (coordinate system). The nature of the projections is that they are Lorentz rotations of the reference frame.

    Nothing "happens to" spacetime. It is merely relative. The only issue here is that relativity has not yet been properly defined and understood.

    Understanding this concept requires training in math leading up to the units on projections and coordinate rotations. Otherwise discussion is futile.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That's OK with me. What you or qreeus decide, or anyone else for that matter is up to you.
    I'll certainly keep replying with regards to inferences about me, I'll continue to answer questions within my ability and knowledgable range, and I'll continue to rebuke along with other true science adherents, the alternative nonsense that you and your ilk post.
    You need to accept you are not Einstein, Bohr or Feynman, and you are just as insignificant as myself among the giants I have mentioned and the many others giants of science.
    Long back? How long back? You have been a member for less than 12 months.
    And who ever told you that was probably looking into a mirror. I'm stuck to no one and very rarely visit any other sections other than pure science particularly cosmology and such.
    It's also worth noting, that all my potential enemies on this forum, [at lest the ones that have made that patently obvious] are all alternative pushers of one sort or another.
    That fact of course, and myself being an amateur, probably has me viewed as an "easy mark"in their eyes. :shrug:
    I'm interested in all science particularly the cosmological sciences and astrobiology. My age?

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    Let's just say whatever that is, that I'm there, you have got to get there.

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    One more thing. As I told Schemlzer, the main problem with your kind besides the obvious inflated ego problem, is the opinion that all science is wrong, and that you must need to think for yourself to right those wrongs, and then wear this "thinking for yourself" like a badge of honour, is that what hypotheticals you do fabricate, you claim as your own, and like a Mother with a baby, it and you can do no wrong.

    As I said before, I do respect the fact that you and Schmezer have submitted papers [I couldn't do it] but that does not automatically crown you as one of the giants I speak of regularly.
    When and if your hypothetical papers are properly reviewed, when and if they are accepted by your peers, when and if, they are used to modify or replace any incumbent theory, then and only then will you have something to crow about.
    But as we all know here, those same papers, will languish, gather dust and die a natural death and be forgotten.
     
  12. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you !!

    Then probably we will not crow about. That humility will come, may be.
     
  13. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    Blue color bold is a good observation....But appears problematic..... Throw some more light, may be with less of maths to start with, so that everyone can grasp what you are saying.

    I fully agree with later part of your above statement that relativity is yet to be understood...it is defined but not well understood....neither by those who vouch for it nor by those who sporadically oppose it.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,703
    You will not crow about it, simply because nothing is going to come of it.
    Although I can see you doing plenty of whinging, fabricating some conspiracies about mainstream, and making plenty of excuses in general.
    They'll all be good for a laugh though.
     
  15. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    1,049
    Hi Aqueous
    Would an example here be...
    If we picture two shells centred upon a black hole, outside the EH of course. Jack on the shell with greater radius lowers a plumb line down to the surface of the lower shell, Jack then reads-off how much line has been played-out. He then sends his 'reading' to distant observer Kate. Kate finds Jack's 'reading' to be larger than what she had calculated that distance between shells to be.
    Kate would also observe the plumb bob taking a longer time to reach the lower shell than what Jack experienced for the time of the lowering of the plumb bob.
    The two points being...the ends of the played-out plumb line( directly measured by Jack) and the two frames being Kate's and Jack's.
    Ps I was nimbus untill I had the op.

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2015
  16. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    Late add-on to my post #32.

    If anyone is thinking the directly (plumb bob) measurements of distances between several shells, centered on the black hole, must reach infinity as the event horizon is approached, then you may be interested in this pdf about integration of all measurements of distances between shells even down to the event horizon... It's finite even down to the horizon.
    Link:
    http://www.physics.ucsd.edu/students/courses/winter2011/physics161/p161.26jan11.pdf
    Remember in this link the Schwarzschild radius is rs, part 10.1
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2015
  17. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    4,086
    Mythical nonsense.

    The BB is a particular solution of GR equations which seems to fit what we observe. Of course, it contains a singularity, which is obviously nonsensical, thus, there is something wrong with BB in the very early universe.

    And the metaphysical claims that "space" and "time" evolve instead of our clocks and rulers are simply bad journalism or metaphysics.
    Yes, the spacetime interpretation was there from the start of GR. But initially it was a little bit more harmless - with a philosophy which did not hide that all what is observed are measurement results of clocks and rulers - the philosophy that "time is what our clocks show".

    This is something which is (at least that is my impression) increasingly hidden from the public. When my teacher has told me "the metric defines what the clocks will measure. And that's all. There is nothing more in GR." this has been already a sort of relevation for me, because it was not what one would read in most textbooks. But, of course, it was easy enough to verify that, indeed, there was nothing more.
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,703
    Perhaps you need to do more research.
    The BB matches what we observe, and what further supports it is how it along with our particle model, and GR, all fit neatly in together.
    The singularity of course falls outside the zone of applicability of the theory and a QGT should eliminate that hopefully by extending the parameters.
    To claim otherwise is total anti mainstream crank nonsense.
    It actually seems that you are slipping further and further into the cesspool.
    Space and time certainly did evolve from what we term the BB, and your continued silly conspiracy nonsense to discredit that is bizarre to say the least.
    And the conspiracy nonsense continues,

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    Again, if anything that you have said had any substance, you would not be here.
    You only have an extremely hypothetical anti GR, anti mainstream hypothesis, and that is evident by what you have said in this post.
     
  19. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    The fit is far from being neat, given that GR needs dark matter, dark energy, and a mechanism for inflation, which is all not part of the SM of particle physics.

    The last sentence shows only that you are completely off. A layman makes some claims, based on popular literature, and tells us that who claims otherwise is total anti mainstream crank. Sorry, but you don't even know the mainstream, and even less what the mainstream considers as acceptable on its boundaries and what as crank anti-science.

    Let's see this as an acknowledgement. You are here, you think that somebody who has anything to say of any substance would not be here, so we can conclude that you have nothing to say that has any substance - and you know about this very well.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,703
    Standard accepted cosmology may still neat some tinkering around the edges, but it stands along with GR as overwhelmingly and properly descriptive of the Universe. I see your hypothesis as playing no part in that at all, now or in the foreseeable future. Like I said, it will fade away to be forgotten among many other purely theoretical scientific hypotheticals.
    What you think or believe is neither here nor there. You yourself only have hypotheticals , while my own view is at least based on provable and logical concepts.

    Your confusion again is obvious. I state a fact, that if you had anything of substance, you would not be here. If you were a true professional scientist, you would not have the time to be here. If there was any chance that the fairy tales you present could be true, you would not be here.
    As a result, this forum, instead of mainstream academia has to shouler your nonsense.
    In a way that is good. At least our knowledgable cosmologists at the coal face need not have to bother with your diatribe.
     
  21. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    Warping / distortion / Curvature of spacetime = Gravity

    Fine, this theory fits nicely when a bigger mass causes some curvature / distortion of spacetime....and smaller object follows that curvature....so far so good, mercury can follow that...

    Now Jupiter, with 60+ moons is moving in some kind of spacetime curvature as produced by Sun, What kind of spacetime distortion / curvature is this ?? Newtonian can very well explain such situation by referring to center of mass etc......but relativity, nope. The situation gets weird when we talk of entire solar system (Sun to Neptune to Kuiper belt to Oort Cloud) all move in sync on some kind of curvature as caused by Galactic Center. Thats a pretty cool curvature caused by GC as wide as 300 million Kms from a distance of 26000 lyrs.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,703

    You continue to ask the same thing again and again and again.

    GR works for any number of bodies, but the system gets mathematically complicated.
    GR gives the same answers as Newtonian mechanics, except with greater precision.
    And the spacetime curvature also moves beyond the galaxy...The MW galaxy and M31 for example are gravitationally bound....or in an even larger curvature to take in the whole local group, and even beyond.
    In other words the effects of the gravity within our local group, galactic cluster and galactic wall are gravitationally bound, and/or decoupled so to speak from the overall spacetime expansion of the Universe/spacetime over larger scales.
     
  23. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    1,525
    This is not a question.....because none here can answer !! And please try reading GR a bit in details (even sans maths), and see if you understand the significance of what I have pointed out...
     

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