Warhammer 40k Vs StarTrek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Fettman, Jun 4, 2007.

?

Who would win?

  1. Warhammer40k

    26 vote(s)
    59.1%
  2. StarTrek

    18 vote(s)
    40.9%
  1. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    It should also be noted that Trek warp factor is not always static. It's why in DS9, TNG, and TOS, ships can reach far-off places while Voyager can be trapped across the galaxy. It's suggested by some fans that part of the reason that the NX-01 needed the Vulcan Starcharts was specifically for the purpose of a subspace highway that would allow them to reach Kronos within a practical time frame.

    In other words, Voyager was lost because there are not established subspace highways to quickly get her back home, where as in The Chase, they took three highways that amounted to no more than a 17 day trip.

    EDIT

    Upon further study of this subject, it seems that the exact size of the UFP is almost impossible to pin down. According to several sources, real stars located within or on the edge of Federation space are in some cases, around three thousand light years away from the Sol system towards the western hemisphere, such as Deneb. Compare this to Trials and Tribbulations, where the Defiant is stated to have traveled 200 light years or in another episode, where Earth is suggested itself to be hundreds of light years away. At the lowest interpretation, that puts K-9 roughly in the same area as the Sol system in terms of distance. That's a rather hard pill to swallow, unless K-9 is a Alpha Quadrant station (possible). However, other problems arise. The first being is that in Enterprise, Kang stopped by Rigel on his way to Earth. Rigel is located over 600 light years away from Earth and was on the NX's four day trip to Kronos. With a warp five engine.

    Needless to say, the problems here are rather large.

    A website goes into this problem in depth, pointing out that DS9 constantly painted the UFP as small, but that TNG, the movies, and TOS constantly painted it as big--something that Enterprise seems to paint as well. Hell, the NX was over a hundred light years away when it ran into one of the planets within Romulan territory, suggesting a nearby system for the future Neutral Zone, which itself is I believe, a light year wide.

    The site suggests a compromise between the two concepts. It suggests that Earth and the planets around it compose of a territory a few hundred light years in size, with the Klingon and Romulan Empires to the west and the Cardassian Union and the Breen Confederacy to the east. It also suggested that there are different sections of the UFP. Ie, that the UFP proper is the capital core, with there being a Rigel Core and a Deneb Core, where parts of the UFP is located.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
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  3. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    Not to mention the fact that within certain episodes of TNG, Warp 6 ends up being faster than Warp 8, presumably because of the way Warp Drive works- it makes sense in a way, some areas of space can be "warped" more than others... after all, you wouldn't want to warp the fuck out of some populated planet

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  5. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Well, looking at Alpha Memory, half of their stated speeds don't scale properly anyhow. If the TM's claimed speed is the dry speed, then it would help explain away the problems. I suspect that the Beta Quadrant is full of them, which allowed the earlier powers to expand as quickly as they did over two hundred years. My guess is that the galactic corridor (a route suggested to exist from the near core of the galaxy out towards the edge, explaining how the 1701 and 1701-A made those trips so damn fast) probably acts as a spine of sort, with warp routes expanding from it into the Beta Quadrant.

    I personally think that the Alpha Quadrant is just being explored by Starfleet in the past few decades. This would explain the growing conflict with the Cardassians rather than earlier, despite being no more than 50 or a few hundred light years away from Earth. It would also explain the lack of discovery of the Ferengi Alliance and the Breen at the time as well, yet still explain how some Ferengi could encounter the NX in the 22nd century.

    EDIT: What's more amusing is that the Jankata Accords signed by the UFP and the CU states that 'no power may enter another quadrant for the purpose of expansion'...but the UFP is already an alpha and a beta power, so the treaty would only apply to the CU. Well, unless they tried to expand in the Gamma Quadrant or the Delta Quadrant later, but apparently that becomes a non-issue since we do know that the UFP expands into the Delta Quadrant. Of course, I suppose if a planet joined the UFP, then it's not violating the treaty because they've become a multi-quadrant power through no attempts at expansion and they'd simply be "securing" the territory they already own.

    Huh.

    My guess is that the Ferengi knew about Starfleet first and for some time, but simply kept to itself. The Cardassians I believe are a relatively newer power. They've had FTL for some time of course, but I believe they'd just started to blossom as an interstellar power when they encountered Starfleet, who had begun expanding into the Alpha Quadrant during that time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
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  7. IvanTih Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    That's because in the majority of those situations,using the full power would be the major screws up(context,same matters for Caves of Ice and it's teraton lances which would sterilize the planet,the Necrons at the end of the novel were about to escape into the galaxy in a few days according to their modus operandi).

    Oh and Roks are shielded thus making the Rok(read BFG) thus disproving the calcs for it.

    And tell me Hellblade why do you insist that 40k use mas lightening especially as we see it in one source and in one of the C.S Goto novels the Eldar say that the IoM doesn't have it.

    And the solar flame thing was an oversight as said by BFG developers and which is contradicted by other sources.

    Most of your Mr Oraghan bullshit was disproven at SpaceBattles.

    Also what is the timeframe for gigawats from BFG or could it be billions of gigawats.
     
  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Thank you for reviving a dead thread.
     
  9. IvanTih Registered Senior Member

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    63
    I have to beat Hellblade since on the almost every place on the internet his arguments have been crushed so I feel that I should do it here.
     
  10. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,869
    a blood feud, even if the cause is just, is never warranted, much less on the INTERNET.

    None the less... sorry, I still maintain Trek would be capable of overcoming WH40K. They would take horrible, terrible losses the first few months of combat, but ultimately ingenuity and strength of tactics and adaptation will win the day against brute (and somewhat untamed) force.
     
  11. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I think ingenuity can only go so far...especially when up against spaceships that run a few kilometers in length.

    I personally think that wh40k shields are the most ingenious functionally of any scifi. Why block an enemy attack when you can teleport it to another dimension?
     
  12. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,194
    Simple, because the shields in most other Scifi don't damage the thing they were supposed to protect (sometimes worse then what they were protecting it from in the case of titans) when they fail. Read titanicis or mechanium for examples.
     
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I hadn't noticed that in the rule book (?) Or is it from the novels?

    Yet one more idea that Games Workshop have stolen and filed the serial numbers off...

    Bunch of thieving b*stards.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,742
    In most SF probably.
    But in Niven and Pournelle's The Mote in God's Eye (and sequels) when the shields fail they tend to melt the entire ship.

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  15. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Well if the shield were to fail then the next thing to hit it would destroy what's being protected. The only difference would be that the thing under the shield would last a few seconds less then the one with an inferior shield.
     
  16. IvanTih Registered Senior Member

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    63
    Prove this,because they'll need to adapt to firepower which is far above their own.
     
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    G-d help us.

    Here we go again.
     
  18. IvanTih Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    This time the idiot Hellblade will suffer.


    Shadow Point: A laser (lance) going through an asteroid does not constitute maximum firepower, for instance and Apple Ipod does not explode or disintegrate when hit with a Barret .50 cal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcnQ72sPZAI

    OH NOES, THE IPAD IS STILL MOSTLY INTACT, THUS A SNIPER RIFLE MUST HAVE MAXIMUM OF SUB JOULE FIREPOWER!!! Relate his Rok argument to this.

    Battlefleet Gothic states that Roks have SHIELDS AND ARMOR. Federation levels of stupid to build a ship without one.

    Also point out that ships, according to the catastrophic damage table create explosions tens of thousands of kilometers in diameter when the plasma drives get hit and that's in vacuum which implies explosion whos yields is in hundreds of gigatons possibly teratons(1cm=1000 km).

    http://history.nasa.gov/conghand/nuclear.htm

    A 20 kiloton nuke in vaccum will have a fireball not even visible to the human eye!

    As for the solar flare thing.
    http://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/sftheory/flare.htm

    Solar flare is basically a nuclear fusion detonation on the scale of hundreds of millions of gigatons.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
  19. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Oh shut up, this isn't the place for your vendetta. And what's more pathetic is that your taking it out on a debate on FICTION.

    The fact that you had to revive a dead thread in order to do it is just plain low man.
     
  20. IvanTih Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    I don't care to be honest.
     
  21. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Good, now you know how the rest of us feel. Go find someone somewhere that really gives a crap about what you think.

    Because to hunt down people from forum to forum just because they beat you to a pulp is as pathetic as you can get. I consider a troll to be a few steps up from people like you.

    Good day sir.
     
  22. IvanTih Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    I don't care.
     
  23. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,869
    Well, maybe you should care... none the less, you have been reported since you've made it clear your ONLY reason for being here is to attack Hellblade (who isn't even here to defend himself).

    Take your trolling and your poor attitude elsewhere.
     

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