War!

Discussion in 'History' started by Omega133, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    This is to be an informative and debateful thread about war and it's effects. Share stories, opinions, facts, or just plain war talk. Wars can be in the past, present, your thoughts on future warfare, foreign, or simple skirmishes.
     
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  3. tommo8993 Registered Member

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    This is true. i was watching a documentary on Afghanistan and a British soldier said him and 1 other where observing a suspected Taliban burying a land mine.
    Why? i dunno but it was all well until afterward he patted it down with his shovel triggering it and blowing him to bits.
     
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  5. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    not a very smart minelayer.
     
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    meh, at least he removed himself from the gene pool

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  8. decons scrambled egg Registered Senior Member

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    It is something like this*, but in technicolor.

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    * Pablo Picasso - Guernica - 1937
     
  9. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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    Plain and simple with out war there is very little to no progress in society or industry. War is a valuable part of the human condition were things can be done that are normally taboo with out the charge of war behind them.
     
  10. decons scrambled egg Registered Senior Member

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    The fact that wars receive more funding than independent research doesn't mean that it is the condition of existence for science.

    War is not a human condition. Some people die in the wars and they are left with no condition to philosophize about. Conflict might be called a human condition, due to people having different interests.

    Then again,chimpanzees also have different interests but it was for another ape to come up with an alternative solution called diplomacy. I don't mean to say that chimpanzees are a troubled species that terrorize every other species in the jungle and make the place unlivable. It is just that their way of attacking their own kind draws similarities. They could add the term "mass destruction" into their everyday use if they had a complicated language system and lived in groups of millions. But they would probably also develop diplomacy. I am just trying to point out what it means to be evolved.

    I don't understand what you mean by "normally taboo" things that could be done through the valuable contribution of war.
     
  11. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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  12. decons scrambled egg Registered Senior Member

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    Scientists will always be scientists. They are a strange bunch, not unlike artists. They dedicate their lives to what they do, without needing the motivation of a war. They are a safe bet too. I am not a scientist but I can see that if the minimum conditions are met, i.e. funding and encouragement, there will always be a supply of scientists. Making tools to make the life easier is what humans do. War only proved the explosive power of nuclear energy. It was the scientists who knew where this kind of energy could come from, because they were already onto atom.
     
  13. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    BS, we can progress even faster and farther without war. All war is, is an alternative source of income to speed projects on.

    War is an outdated system for stealing lands, destroying property, oppressing people.

    Im sure you would be in less favor of war if you saw how many people died just so you can transmit your reply to this over the internet.

    War and violence is not our first instinct, our first instinct other than the necessities of food and reporduction is to herd together. If our first instinct was to fight, do you honestly think we would have come this far? There would be no way we could have come this far without teamwork.

    All war does is take those research projects and put them on steroids, the computer would have been invented with or without war.
     
  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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  15. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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    What you sau is true for the most part. What about the Cold War that war increase our knowledge of space as well as gave us inventions like the personal pc and velcro. You mean to tell me that the Ball point pen and velcro as well ase many many other space related items would have been invented anyway. With out the cold war no I dont think so. With out the cold war there would have not been a need top develope the ICBM
    and inturn no need to develop maned space flight.If not for WWII Werner VonBraun would still be making rockets in his backyard and not for Nasa.
     
  16. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    We may be able to thank warfare for moving us forward but at this point it is no longer necessary to continue.

    War is hell, period.

    My father was a marine on the front lines during the Korean War. He doesn't like to talk about it much.

    He woke up to other marines, some friends who had no head, blown off in the middle of the night. They would send up flares to light up the sky, if your head happened to be up, it's gone.

    He also credits his shooting training and the demand from the leader to make him a better shot for saving his and other lives. Kept him their hours just shooting a target over and over until they were deadly accurate.

    The marines did the same thing, shoot up flares, then you try to hit as many as you can, you could see them crawling over logs etc.

    That is some pretty crappy existence. Laying in a muddy pit behind a log then picking off canon fodder from the other side.

    He also said they got pissed as hell at some Army guys who all came back from a hill they were supposed to take with gun shots in their feet.

    There were a few stories like that he has told but for the most part keeps quiet about the whole thing.
     
  17. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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    There is no doubt in my mind that war is hell I never did say that it was pleasant what I did say is it was necessary to advance ideas and technologies father and faster then they would have on there own. And WWII is just a contemporary example War has been instrumental in the advancement of our current world with out it we would likely still be hitting things with sticks and stones in order to kill them for food. just look at the most advanced societies in the past the were war fair cultures determined to expand what they had both there knowledge and the technology. Yes War is not a good thing for the people involved in it but for the greater whole war is a benefit even for the loser eventually. And BTW My Grandfather was in the British Army during WWII and my Father served in Korean in the British Army as well. The Canadian army would not take me when I was younger as I answer the question of why do you want to join the Army and I said to learn to shoot and to kill people why else would you want to join other then to defend your country and to kill people when the need/ chance arose.
     
  18. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Why do we need ICBMs?
    War had nothing to do with space.

    As a matter of fact the first ICBM's were just normal rockets used by scientists where they replaced the payload with warheads.

    Grim, you think the only reason we advance is for war.

    I think most powerful reason we advance is because we want to.

    Of course there would be no reason to have ICBMs since when have we even used one? And what practical purpose would they serve in a peaceful world?!!?

    Most of the best innovations were created by the civilian market under peaceful pretenses.
     
  19. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    "BTW My Grandfather was in the British Army during WWII and my Father served in Korean in the British Army as well."

    You and a couple million more people.

    The problem with people like you, is you dont know real war. You know what you see in propoganda, no more.

    War provides a sort of stimulant to CERTAIN technologies.
    But, if you had a country like the US with right now 350 million people, you will create technology quickly. But if 6 billion people worked together, that would be infinitely faster
     
  20. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Grim,

    I don't disagree with this. I am suggesting that we no longer need war to advance or push for technological advancements.

    We have the economy, energy needs and hopefully space travel which all require an investment there. We are so technologically based that it is no longer something that we need war to push us to invest in it. It's such a part of how we operate that without the advancement, economic expansion would be impossible without changing it entirely.
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    For the simple reason that they were a delivery system that was far less stoppable (if at all) than manned bombers, and required fewer men to expose themselves to enemy defences.

    On the contrary, normal rockets were ICBMs used to carry a payload other than a warhead. The main driver for rocketry was the ICBM.

    One of the main drivers (if not THE main driver) for technology (as opposed to science) is warfare.
    Look at the development (or rather lack of development) of aircraft in the between the wars period. When WWII broke out most air forces still used (to a greater or lesser extent) biplanes - 20 odd years after WWI finished. Six years later, because of the war, jets were the "in" thing.
    Hulsmeyer installed one of the first ever operational radars on a Rhine river cruiser (patent of 1904). It was the threat of WWII that made people sit up and take notice of its potential.
     
  22. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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    This is true perhaps now we don't need war to advance thing perhaps we never did but it is naive to think that war will just stop it never will as long as there are people willing to disagree on things and borders war will never stop and neither will the advancements that war brings. For all those that think this is a load of crap look around you every thing you use today including the INTERNET was built and designed for the purpose of making war.
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Off the top of my head...
    Introduction of the jet-powered aircraft to service.
    Introduction of integrated radar defence networks.
    Introduction of blind landing systems.
    Cavity magnetron. (Microwave ovens apart from radar applications).
    APDS rounds.
    Nuclear weapons.
    AWACS.
     

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