War! (never been so much fun...)

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Neville, Mar 16, 2003.

  1. Neville Registered Senior Member

    So it looks like there will be a war. I don't think it will affect me in the slightest really (not just me i mean the majority of civilians and probably even those in the armed services. Does anyone have any realistic worst case scenarios??
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  3. jps Valued Senior Member

    I assume you mean the majority of US civilians and members of the US armed forces. Everyone in Iraq will be affected.
    In any case, most upper class american civilians probably won't be affected.
    Sadly this is just not true of the rest of us.
    I know quite a few people who have been called up from the reserves and expect to be shipped out soon, so its certainly effecting those in the armed forces.
    Civilians are affected by the deficits created by huge amounts of money being spent on the war..for example my college, along with the rest of the city university of new york(CUNY) system, which consists almost entirely of working class students, is going to have its budget cut, financial aid programs cut, and tuition raised by 1200 dollars. The last time CUNY raised its tuition 30,000 students were forced to drop out.
    I would have to say that this war is effecting most everyone already.
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  5. Neville Registered Senior Member

    Yeah but none of us are going to be killed or lose a limb etc are we?? Thats what i mean by being affected. I also meant that does anyone think there is any real possibility of bomb's or water spiking etc
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  7. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    Just read Israeli headlines to find out what it is like to occupy an ethnicly-divided Arab country. If the US pushes the neocolonialist agenda far enough, the retaliation is coming soon to a shopping mall near you.
  8. Don H Registered Senior Member

  9. blankc Your superior Registered Senior Member

    Fun for the military contractors and oil execs only.
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    This will not be World War II, fought somewhere else.

    You asked for realistic. I think this is realistic. That does not mean that I think it is 100 percent probable. But I do think it is quite possible (at least 25 percent) and I think we should all worry about it.


    The reason that so many Muslims and Muslim nations are already mad at us is that regardless of how each of us perceives him/herself as an individual, in their eyes the U.S. is a Christian nation. This Christian nation has military bases established on Muslim holy ground, in Saudi Arabia. To them this is a military incursion, regardless of the fact that we have the Saudi government's cooperation. In the eyes of a Muslim in Pakistan or Indonesia, there must be some infidel spies in the Saudi government or this would never have been allowed. That makes it even worse because in addition to outright military action it looks like we have a very effective infiltration program already launched against the most holy Muslim country, the birthplace of Mohammed.

    There are two billion Muslims on this planet. Because of our military incursion into Saudi Arabia, they're already thinking about the Crusades, that military campaign that was launched by virtually all the Christian nations of Europe against all the Muslim nations of the Mideast about 1,000 years ago. Christian soldiers indiscriminately slaughtered every person they could find in Muslim areas. Including people who weren't even Muslims. Their goal was to eradicate Islam from the face of the globe. They didn't succeed, but it wasn't for lack of trying or for lack of pure irrational religiously inspired hatred.

    The Islamic world eventually got its act together and established some diplomatic and military might. They went out and conquered and occupied many of their neighboring countries, sort of the same thing the Soviets did, to build up a buffer zone between themselves and the Christian countries.

    Then the most amazing thing happened, one of the periodic explosions of the Mongols passed through Islamic territory, and that particular wave of Mongols converted to Islam. Along the way they intermarried with the people they encountered, and the result was the people we now call the Turks. This new people, with the combination of the Muslim religion and the Mongol military might, established the Ottoman Empire, which at its peak extended from western China, through northern India, to north Africa and southeastern Europe (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania), as well as a good chunk of the already Muslim Mideast.

    For centuries Muslims felt secure because the Ottoman Empire was a good match for any European attack. Then about 100 years ago the Ottoman Empire fell, part of the mass warfare and confusion that consumed Europe before, during, and after World War I. All that remains of it is the nation of Turkey. But about the same time the USSR was formed, and the Nazis began rising to power in central Europe. The powerful Christian nations were too busy trying to destroy each other, so for a while they didn't even give the Mideast a second glance.

    After World War II, an uneasy balance was established between the USA and the USSR. Anything the USA did the USSR automatically opposed and vice versa. The Russians managed to take over most of the old Ottoman Empire (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Chechnya, etc.), but the Arab Muslim nations, plus Pakistan and Iran, were safe. If the Russians started thinking about annexing Pakistan, the USA would sell the Pakistan army a bunch of weapons and send over military advisors. If the Americans got friendly with Egypt, the Russians would send engineers to Egypt and build the Aswan dam.

    It was what a physicist would call "unstable equilibrium," but it held together for more than 40 years. Until Perestroika. The USSR fell apart. All those former Soviet republics that speak Turkic languages like Kazakhstan are now free Muslim countries (with their own dictators, of course). Whoopee. But the bear with the hammer and sickle is no longer standing there ready to automatically counter absolutely anything the USA does.

    For a while it looked to the Muslims like the USA was going to be cool. We're not exactly a European country, so they were waiting to see whether we would pick up the old European tradition of annihilating Muslims, or follow our own path. Things looked good to Muslims at first. We gave Saddam Hussein a huge arsenal of weapons when he went to war against Iran. It was a war between two Muslim countries, but that didn't seem to bother anybody, at least we were giving weapons to Muslim soldiers.

    When the Russian army left Afghanistan, the pro-Western militia we had put together to hold off the Russians -- a wacky little group that called itself the Taliban -- got to run the whole country. Islamic fundamentalism was back in vogue. Women trapped in their kitchens, no one allowed to listen to music or own a dog (man's oldest and most faithful companion, the multi-species community that in a way defines what it means to be human, is a filthy nasty scavenger after all). Beards on the men, veils on the women.

    The Americans were starting to look OK. Still infidels and we're all going to hell, of course, but at least we're not going to cause any problems to the faithful Muslims.

    Then all of a sudden Saudi Arabia, which was under a cloud of suspicion because they allowed infidel military bases on holy ground, tried to do something to reaffirm its commitment to Allah. They sent an in-law of the Saudi royal family named Osama out with millions of dollars, the quiet support of the Saudi government, and a huge troop of Saudi warriors who were willing to die for Allah. These Saudi citizens, under the direction of Osama and using the Saudi royal family's money, hijacked some airliners and knocked down three really big, important American buildings, killing a whole bunch of infidels in the process and guaranteeing themselves front row seats in heaven.

    This was really cool. The Saudis had redeemed themselves in the eyes of the faithful, and the Americans were made to pay for the horrible sin of stationing Christian soldiers near Mecca. Of course it was natural to expect that the Americans would punish the Saudis for doing this and Arabia might get the crap kicked out of it, but what's one more war in the Mideast.

    But that isn't what happened. The Americans have this really stupid guy in charge who doesn't really understand politics or much of anything else. Instead of attacking Saudi Arabia, which the whole world would have understood and considered natural, his tiny brain slipped a cog and somehow intertwined Saddam Hussein with the Al-Qaeda terrorists. Nobody else in the whole world could make this connection, but that hasn't stopped them from supporting Bush in his crazy logic.

    So Bush is going to punish Iraq for something that Saudi Arabia did. It would be inconvenient to bomb Saudi Arabia so we'll bomb Iraq instead. In other words, he regards all Muslims as interchangeable -- kill 'em all and let Allah sort it out.

    What does this look like to the average Muslim in the street in the Phillipines or Malaysia? The Crusades are starting up again! Christendom is going to try to eradicate Islam once and for all. We can't tell an Iraqi from a Saudi, and we don't care, we're just going to start killing until there are no more left.

    In a part of the world where a "moderate" is defined as somebody who only holds a grudge for six generations, the USA is opening up a thousand-year-old grudge.

    Do I think that the average American will be unaffected by the forthcoming war? Do you think that out of two billion Muslims, there won't be a few tens of thousands who will be willing to die for Allah, canoeing up Chesapeake Bay, snowmobiling down from Saskatchewan, sailing a catamaran into Santa Barbara, or cutting a big hole in the fence between Sonora and Arizona -- with dynamite or C-4 duct-taped all over their bodies? Disneyland, the Mall of America, the Astrodome, the Washington Monument, the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Coney Island, anyplace that seems important to us will be an easy target for a suicide bomber.

    If the border patrol and the police catch most of them, and say only five thousand get through and blow up themselves, a chunk of American culture, and a few hundred American civilians, do you think life will ever be the same for us again?

    You asked for a worst-case scenario. You got it, Lone Ranger. Sure, I think there's a good chance that it won't happen. But there's also a fair chance that it will. And if it does, I don't know what the hell any of us will be able to do about it except watch it happen and live in fear, shock, and mourning for the rest of our lives.

    Thanks a heap, Mr. Bush. You've really got our best interests at heart. It's so comforting to have a man at the helm who understands politics and history. I'm sure your wife and children will be in Sweden or New Zealand while all this is going on.
  11. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Cool. We'll have to kill all the Muslims.

  12. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    If america sees one or two more 9-11 type events I have no doubt we will go COMPLETELY mad and begin to act the way people accuse us of acting now. We would actually begin to use our nuclear capabilities en masse.
  13. blankc Your superior Registered Senior Member

    I have no doubt that if america started using nukes, that they too would be nuked, thus scorched earth. If you truly condone the use of nuclear weapons, then you are a danger to our species. Lets hurry up and make some self-sustainable mars bases so we don't become a memory of earths wonder and horror.
  14. nnaus Registered Member

    Are they really worried about terror now that they got all the bongs off the net? they better get there prioritys straight :m:
  15. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    No way, humans made this mess so if they think they deserve life on another planet they are mistaken, I will personally see that none of these "mars bases" come about, I will shoot the equipment out of the sky as it is being launched(with aaahh... a slingshot

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    ), and make sure we all die with the planet WE killed.
    To have it any other way would be the hugest injustice in the history of the universe.
  16. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    But according to Drlunitarians we were supposed to rape and pillage the earth as a cleansing, no?

    What did we do wrong?

    Maybe we are SUPPOSED to mess Mars up too.
  17. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    but according to the book of my friend steve I am the saviour and my slingshot will save our souls from the horrors of the red planet.... its somewhere towards the back...
  18. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Wow Drlunitarism has prophecies too?

    What are some others?

    Which ones have come to fruition so far?

    You ALMOST have a convert here, be convincing if you want 10% of my paycheck.

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  19. jak719 Registered Member

    I support the war. And any American who doesn't should be ashamed of themselves. Where is your patriotism and national pride? There used to be kids that would volunteer to fight for their country. World War 1 and 2 kids lied about their age so they can join the military and have the chance to avenge the deaths of their fellow Americans. After the attack at Pearl Harbor everyone supported the war. We get attacked in New York. Innocent civilians died for no apparent reason and people still dont want to fight for their country? People can no no longer just use America and then just be afraid to defend it when the opportunity comes up. If we do then everything are forefathers have done, was just a waste of time and sacrifice. You just cant let them take away everything we have done, all that we have built. You have to fight back.
  20. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    *takes a deep breath and prepares to rebut*
  21. jak719 Registered Member

    No, go on and say what is on your mind. I want to hear it.
  22. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    The whole point of this country and why it was founded was to give the common citizen power over the government rather than the other way around (though it seems that nearly everyone has forgotten that lately).

    We have not only the ability, but the responsibility to speak out against and change what we feel is wrong or unjust.

    A government:
    BY the people
    (controlled and run by the opinion of the masses)
    OF the people
    (officials elected from withing the general classless public)
    FOR the people
    (working towards the common goals of imporving the life of the common masses)

    Anyone who supports their government blindly, regardless of the government's actions and stance is NOT helping their fellow citizen.

    That person is doing just the opposite, actually (in my humble opinion).

    That person is a sheep and is acting negatively towards their country and fellow citizens.

    This is a quote from a screenplay I am working on:
    (don't steal it

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    Exactly where it SHOULD be.
    With the people and trying to make this country better.
    Not supporting who ever the current power hungry moron happens to be sitting in the oval office this time around.

    I have been much more convincing and clear about this in past arguments.
    I am just very tired right now.

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  23. jak719 Registered Member

    About the government that is by the people; of the people; for the people. If we let other nations and cultures take it away and dont defend it, where are we then? Then we lose our government that is by the people; of the people; and for the people. And we lose our way of life. Wouldn't you rather stand up and fight to preserve our way of life?

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