Walmart Kills More Businesses

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by TruthSeeker, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Actually I do not think it is a fallacy? But yes it is a tactic. Reductio Ad Absurdum (Reduction to absurdity) not that I was employing it effectively...

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    and actually, as you can see, many people did not find the path ended in an absurd but a desired outcome. I suppose it is really used a priori?

    Is that correct?
    Michael
     
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  3. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    My opinions.

    My opinions of Europe, or of the American left, or of the class of the global left are not indelible.

    They just seem to be to the folks incapable of distinguishing the difference between their own local horizons and their boundless misestimation of their universally confirmed self-esteem.

    That's where I come in.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Well at least you're honest about your peers.

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  7. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

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    That is spot on.

    The Wal-Marts and Tescos of this World are still essentially regarded as grocery stores – providers of basic needs. Since they can provide our groceries at lower prices compared to other smaller retailers, consumers disregard everything else - the social impact of their expansion, their impact on smaller businesses, farmers and suppliers goes out the window.

    It is sad.
     
  8. Water-man Registered Member

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    15
    True , but atlease it helps out those who don't have the financial support needed to buy such pricey things.

    All the so called small businesses, farmers , and suppliers will have to find some other way to survive in the business world because i don't here them talking about helping out poor people.
     
  9. terryoh Registered Senior Member

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    388

    The thing is, globalization is actually helping to eliminate poverty in the world (at the expense of the industrialized world's jobs). But does this really matter? The industrialized world is becoming more service-based. They don't need the manufacturing jobs anymore or needs less of them.

    Read Jeffrey D. Sachs' The End of Poverty. Globalization is one of the keys to helping the world.
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I understand that this is probably true.

    But so what? What does this have to do with the human condition? Helping people out of poverty is not what motives most people to get out of bed at 5AM and work 12 hours.

    Traditionally a job in manufacturing was considered at least a somewhat respectable and skilled job and supported a healthy middle class America. Now most blue collar jobs will involve greeting costumers or stocking Box-Top shelves. Jobs that require little training, where someone can be replaced in a day (or less) and even less dignity.

    I'm not saying that this isn't OK - I'm just wondering what kind of society we are creating?

    Is the middle class in Amercia shrinking? If so then what?

    What happens when the chances of a person moving from bottom to top is all but gone? What happens to society when there is no security in life TOGETHER with no dignity in ones work?


    I also note that about the only thing sure in History is that, sooner or later the ruled kill those that rule them.

    Is there something we're doing that's particularly special in the USA that will buck this natural occurring trend?

    Michael
     
  11. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

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    2,170
    I’m not referring to pricey goods, I’m referring to groceries.

    We do our main shopping at the major supermarkets (Asda and Tesco) but for small things (bread, milk etc.), we go to the local shops. Now nearly everyone in our community knows the shop owners, they are very nice people, if you are short one day, you can just tell them you’ll pay the next time you see them and its cool. Kids can even get free sweets.

    The major supermarkets can never provide anything like that. Their aim is to make as much money as possible while cutting as much corners as possible and shitting on the local community!

    Smaller businesses do not have the resources to compete with Tesco. I believe the smaller formats of Tesco that are cropping up are bad for consumers and society in general. And regarding the farmers and suppliers, they have no choice. They are almost being held hostage by Tesco.
     
  12. aurizon Registered Member

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    1
    The tragedy of the commons, and Gresham's Law, combined.

    The commons are the small stores that populate the USA
    Walmart is the 'bad money'


    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_Law
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
     
  13. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    You afford this place too much credit.

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  14. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Only in north america. The rest of the world suffers regardless.
     
  15. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    Bullshit. People in sweatshops barely get paid enough to survive (if they are lucky enough to get paied that) let alone enough to save so that they can get a better life!!!!!!!! :bugeye:

    And, yes. North americans don't need manufacturing jobs like they needed just a couple of decades ago...
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    So why don't they get a better job? Perhaps they could all become the CEO of MicroSoft or GM or something. Why work at a sweat shop?

    Baron Max
     
  17. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    It motivates me...

    What kind of society did you have before? Isn't it true that in american society everyone is on their own? No community. And everyone is in competition for more and more stuff. "Oh my neighbour has a better lawn then me, a bigger house and a better car! I have to work harder so that I can buy better stuff then he has!" As though having stuff is what defines whether you are worth the air you breathe or not! What do you think this kidnd of society is creating for tomorrow?


    Do you think that's good for the economy? Yesterday, I heard on the news that the north american society is about to implode. We are heading for a depression. The housing market in the US is falling apart. Inflation is getting very hard to control. Why do you think that's happening? What do you think will be the consequences?

    Not caring about other people is very dangerous. If enough people do it, you end up messing up the entire society...

    Certainly. Nothing is forever. That sounds very cliche... yuck...
     
  18. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Then why don't you do something about it instead of spending so much time here on sciforums complaining to us?

    Baron Max
     
  19. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    Do you think they have any choices? How do you think is the job market in fucking Indonesia? Great? Let's talk about Brazil! With an unemployment rate of 15%, when accountants and lawyers themselves don't have jobs, don't you think they would take anything that comes along?

    And what if they don't have enough education to be a CEO of Microsoft? So what? Do you think they would get that out of thin air? Do you think they have enough money to get educated? Do you think the government has enough money to pay for people's education and build schools? They are obviously stuck. And that's not their fault. They were just born in a tough situation- that is all.
     
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    So? Whose fault is that?

    And if someone in the USA goes down there and gives poeple work, then why in hell should they complain?

    Maybe those people shouldn't fuck so much, then there wouldn't be so many poor people, then there might be enough work for all of them.

    But regardless, you can't blame any of that on US companies or the USA.

    Baron Max
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    Ever hear of the WTO cartel?
     
  22. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    It depends. If the USA supports dicatotorships, it's the USA's fault too.

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    The USA is exploiting those people. They give them work but pay them 8 cents an hour. I fail to see how that is beneficial to them in any way.

    It's not just a matter of how many of them there are. But, yes, that's a factor that contributes to their situation.

    Ha ha! Isn't that convenient for you?

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  23. terryoh Registered Senior Member

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    Who else will provide them the money? What other sources of income can they turn to?

    All capitalist societies go through the same schtick. The British and Americans, during their Industrial Revolutions, had horrible work conditions and people who worked for low wages. Why? Because they wanted to get themselves out of the never-ending cycle of poverty. I understand that it's not good, but unfortunately it is a necessary evil.

    China, India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Brazil, etc... are now going through this process. The workers ARE getting paid. Not that much, compared to what we here in the West make, but their standard of living is a lot lower. Surely, it is still not enough to classify themselves as "middle class", but these workers prefer to work 15 hours a day for low wages than not work at all for no wages.

    As I said before, read The End of Poverty by Jeffrey D. Sachs. It will enlighten you to know that globalization is one key that does eliminate EXTREME poverty. Getting rid of MODERATE poverty is an entirely different matter and takes effort from the government, monetary bodies, and individual investment and innovation. Getting rid of MODERATE poverty is extremely hard, as even Western countries like America face MODERATE poverty in many areas.

    Trust me, read the book. I was once like you. I hated globalization, honestly. Thinking of the working conditions, etc... . Then reading the book and looking up historical sources about how America, Western Europe, and Canada were when they were becoming First World countries opened my eyes.

    If you hate the way globalization is treating workers elsewhere, then it means you basically hate the way the West became First World nations, because they basically took the same route. The first few generations of workers suffered greatly, but in the long term, everything worked out (relatively speaking).

    Yes, they don't, because other countries manufacture things ten times cheaper than Americans do. It allows Americans to concentrate on areas where they are better at in terms of services or production (e.g. high tech goods, telecommunications, etc...).



    Honestly, I don't know why people are afraid of globalization. It allows the poor overseas to get a fair shot at life that Americans have been enjoying for years.

    I find it gratifying to see the former generation of Chinese and Indian workers work hard in a factory to try to provide their children with food, security, and education. That former generation would never have had an opportunity otherwise. Then, their children grow up and become the next generation's professionals (e.g. doctors, lawyers, business owners, engineers, etc...). They can help break the cycle of chronic, extreme poverty.

    Surely, as I said before, those factory jobs don't provide the BEST income. In fact, they are very low relative to our standards, but they have no other options. It's either take that job or don't work at all. I'll choose the former if I were given that option.
     

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