A friend of my wife's recently told her that when she got pregnant she was still an unmarried virgin. Apparently she'd had sexual intercourse without penetration and without even taking her panties off! When I recounted this story to some friends, nobody was surprised, apparently it used to be a common phenomenon for women to suffer from only partially broken hymens which needed to be removed surgically before a woman could give birth. So much for the 'holy' virgin Mary, ie, it wouldn't have been unusual for women to have had 'virgin' pregnancies in those days. Only, probably it wasn't talked about.
I have read that a "virgin" birth also was a convenient way for a woman who was not married to explain away a pregnancy, back in the "old days" a couple thousand years ago or so.
Oh, duh. Please tell me this is supposed to be funny? ------------------ "ET phone home!" "Uh, hello Satan?" "Hey, your plan worked great! They all think I'm cute!"
No unfortunatly Lori it is a threatning gesture. We are satanic ritualists trying to undermine the sacred word of your God. Seriously I think with all this crazy fanaticm and stuff, I think you people are totally losing track of what Jesus was saying. "God" seems to fufil the fuction of a role model, a being who everyone should look up too. Mabye Jesus just made up God so that he could be sure that his teachings would last 2000 years and beyond and inspire people to do great things. He knew that no human (or other) thing would ever surpass the infinite. So he said that an infinite God instructed him. Perfect. Of course he had good intentions, but this stuff about an infinite God was not meant, I think, to be the central role of Christianity. Instead it was meant to set humanity on a good and stable path that would allow it to achieve many things. Indeed this is a very smart and good man. But I think Buddha and mabye Muhammed were just as good.
Did anybody even check the "virgin" Mary for virginity? Maybe she was screwing around on Joseph and needed a way out that wouldn't cost her her life. Adultery carried the death sentence (for women, at least). Anyway, how long had they been married before she became pregnant? Did they ever consummate their marriage?
Come on, this is silly. What do you really need to see to believe? Mary's chart at the doctor's office? If the Bible says that she was a virgin, then she was, but truly that is irrelevant. I would imagine that God chose a virgin for a good reason, but He certainly didn't have to. The Bible talks about other spirits fathering children with humans. Greek and Roman mythology does too. Did you know that Alexander the Great believed that he was a demi-god? He claimed that his mother visited a place where people could have sex with spirits, and she got pregnant with him. That's what he claimed, no lie. ------------------ "ET phone home!" "Uh, hello Satan?" "Hey, your plan worked great! They all think I'm cute!"
The bible does not say Mary was a virgin, not really. The hebrew word for virgin also means young woman, so she was not neccesarily a virgin. She was also probasbly 13 or 14, so she probably wasnt "screwing around."
1 A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham: 2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, 3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar, Perez the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram, 4 Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon, 5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth, Obed the father of Jesse, Skip a few to matthew 1:16. The ones I skipped followed the same pattern. The last one does not for some odd reason. Matthew 1:16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Matthew doesn't say Joseph was Jesus' biological father, only that he was Mary's husband and Jesus was her son, thus possibly confirming the virgin birth. The purpose of Matthew's geneology was to show that though Jesus is not Josephs biological son, he is his legal son. Thus his ancestory could be traced back to King David. Mary was a virgin. Its pretty clear in the bible. Most people deny the virgin birth because they don't believe in miracles. But the problem is that in their mind miracles do not occur. In reality this is not the case. Luke also gives us a geneology. Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, He was the son so it was thought? The virgin birth seems to be hinted at even when the word virgin isn't used. You said """"The hebrew word for virgin also means young woman, so she was not neccesarily a virgin."""" The hebrew word may have two meanings but what about the greek word? Shouldn't the nt be able to tell us which definition was meant in the ot? I think so. The virgin birth is somewhat vital to christianity. A few things rest upon it. For instance, the idea of Jesus being without sin. Vinnie Praise Jesus!!! [This message has been edited by ilgwamh (edited December 13, 1999).]
Sure, but thankfully it says the exact opposite, sooooooo?????? What is your point exactly? You know though, if the Bible DID say that killing was a good thing, or somehow justifiable, then I may have not been led down the same path. I believe the Word because it makes sense to me, but maybe it wouldn't make sense to me if the Word was different. But it's not different, so?????? I'm confused. ------------------ "ET phone home!" "Uh, hello Satan?" "Hey, your plan worked great! They all think I'm cute!"
Ok, Oxygen, now I get to do the same thing to you....what if the Bible is true? ------------------ "ET phone home!" "Uh, hello Satan?" "Hey, your plan worked great! They all think I'm cute!"
AND... How about those three wise men??? Now, you KNOW that's gotta be true... Think about it! Of course, there must have been many, many wise men living at that time. Being men, of course, only three of them would ask for directions!!! TSHSHSHSHHHH!!!! (That's the sound of cymbals clashing). Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Doesn't it bother anyone that pregnancy without some kind of sexual contact is simply impossible amongst humans?? Was Mary non-human, that she could reproduce asexually? Santa Clause exists too, right?
SkyeBlue, You might consider it impossible amongst humans, however, it is an absolute certainty that if God wanted to impregnate a woman, what we consider "human sexual contact" would not have to take place. This does not bother me. God's miraculous ways never bother me.
Lori-Although the exact location of the passage eludes me at the moment, the bible says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." It's not one of the ten commandments, but I think the language is pretty clear, and it's attributed to god. If the bible turns out to be true to the letter, I will accept my damnation without complaint. Either that or I'll point at 666 and say "He did it!" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Truestory: The bible never says 3 wise men, that number is inferred from the three gifts given to the baby. And the wise men were probobly astrologers, and had been hired to spy on the baby Jesus so King Herod could kill him. Just a little bit of background Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Oxygen: That passage is in Deuteronomy, I forget where. That was part of the Jewish code of law, which Jesus said not to follow so strictly. Jesus, in effect, repealed many of those laws, preaching forgiveness and love instead of intolerance and punishment.
Corp., You're correct about the Bible never giving a number but, spies?!?!?!?!?! Now, that's a bit of something that I don't know where in the world you're coming from. Did they watch the stars and make use of them? I'm sure they did. We still do today. The stars helped me in basic tanning. However, I know that they control nothing. They make useful tools to know where you are at and what time. If these guys made a trek to see the baby Jesus, and were watching for the signs that prophesy was being fulfilled about Him, why would the waste time in astrology? Love and Prayers, ISDAMan
Ilgwamh, quote: Luke 3:23 -Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, He was the son so it was thought? The virgin birth seems to be hinted at even when the word virgin isn't used.- I don't think most people would immediately think of virgin births if a child's sire was suspect. More likely, a word beginning with b would spring to mind, far more readily. I remember somebody writing a well researched and feasible theory on the likelihood that Jesus was sired by a Roman soldier. The young Mary would have been shamefully stigmatised for the rest of her life if she'd stayed in her home village, so the kind Joseph who was much older than her, offered to marry her and take her away, where she wasn't known. Apparently, so the story goes, this soldier evolved into the Roman Centurion who later showed faith in Jesus. [This message has been edited by tablariddim (edited December 15, 1999).]
Oxygen, What I need to know is what does "suffer to live" mean? Does that specifically mean to kill? Probably not. Also, I'd need to know whether it's Old or New Test. The rules changed when Jesus came. ------------------ "ET phone home!" "Uh, hello Satan?" "Hey, your plan worked great! They all think I'm cute!"
