Virgin birth questions/problems

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Dinosaur, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    With our modern knowledge of biology, the virgin birth presents some problems/questions.

    A true virgin could only give birth to a female with two X chromosones.

    Was there a sexual encounter between Mary & some angel or other heavenly entity?

    Did some angel or heavenly entity insert a Y chromosone into a cell in Mary's womb using mystical means?

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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Nobody knows.

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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Apparently, with all "our modern knowledge of biology", some people still can't read.

    Jesus is typically stated to have been THE SON OF GOD, GOD INCARNATE, AND NOT SIMPLY YET ANOTHER HUMAN.

    So why do some people try to ascertain Jesus' birth, life and death the way they would ascertain the birth, life and death of an ordinary human??

    You don't have to believe that Jesus was God incarnate, you don't even have to believe that Jesus historically existed. But if you're going to use some statements from Christian doctrine (like the statement that Jesus was born of a virgin), then you have to use others as well (such as that Jesus was God incarnate).
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    I think we can take it as read that God could create a Y chromosome wherever and whenever he wanted to.

    It's God magic.
  8. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    You know this is only a story because no woman can give birth to a child without sperm. That is a scientific and natural fact.

    This is a story that is based totally on belief, not fact, a myth.

    There are no "angels" or "miracles" but only stories for others to believe in if they are so gullible.

    That said there are many people who do believe in this sort of thing and that is their right to do so but remember it is a BELIEF not a FACT that they are worshiping.
  9. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    M*W: There is a misunderstanding of the word 'virgin.' 'Virgin' simply regards the age and marital status of the woman in question. The myth of Jesus's conception refers to Mary being about 13 years old (according to the NT). "Virgin' also refers to the marital status of the "young girl' in question. Mary was betrothed to Joseph which was like being engaged. I am quite certain that if these fictional characters were real, they would be getting it on, even if Mary was, at the time, jail bait.

    It's been a while since I posted. No, I wasn't in hell, and I wasn't in jail. Commitments piled up, and I just didn't have the time. Hope I can be more available to drop in now and then to promote my case against Christianity.
  10. rodereve Registered Member

    LOL! Yes, apparently there are misunderstanding of the word 'virgin'.
  11. wellwisher Banned Banned

    We are composed of both male and female genes, which come from our parents (sperm and egg). Conceptually, if a maturing ovum, from the female, was to somehow divide her genes (end up with 1/2 DNA and extrudes the rest out of the ovum) somewhere along the parental male and female genes line, and then the ovum pulls the extruded male genes (from dad) back in, instead of sperm, then the female would be self fertile.

    The daughter forms from genes from mom and dad (female and male). Her ovum divides the DNA so it extrudes something close to the original DNA of the sperm she got from dad. Instead of being a waste product, this is pulled back in, after the ovum is potentiated.
  12. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Virgin births do happen in nature, so i think we have no idea to how valid the idea of humans having virgin births are.

    Its all part of faith.

    We know today that nature is very bizarre creature, and we are only touching the surface of whats possible. Read the article, stating science was shocked at how often it occured. Our accepted view of the world, is drawn by what ever boundaries we have, not on what nature truly can do.

    We have no idea what nature can really do, or what means it finds to procreate.
  13. Saturnine Pariah Hell is other people Valued Senior Member

    Let's just take on faith then

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

  14. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    The link by Andy1033 does not apply to mammals.
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    That's not going to happen. It's like some kind of hypnosis.

  16. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

    In dairy cattle , sheep and pigs, virgins give birth all the time and the sex ratio of the offspring is 50:50 Male : Female.
    It is call artificial insemination. Without a doubt in my mind Joseph is Jesus' biological father but somehow Mary was inseminated without asexual relationship. OK it could happen for it does happen.
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Even if Mary could have become spontaneously pregnant. The off-spring would be a "clone" of Mary. It would be impossible to give birth to a male.
  18. henrykeziah Registered Member

    i trust , i bought the GPS jammer knock off that llike $230 bucks i got it a week after i paid for it. the phones great, no cheap feeling, packaging was good when it arrived, and the quality is next to perfect. id say buy the jammer. and shipping is free
  19. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Mary's genes came 1/2 from her mother who is female, and 1/2 from her father who is male. Mary contains males genes from her dad as well as female genes from her mother. In a female, the male genes are not inert, but tend to be more unconscious. The extrusion of the DNA during ovum maturity would need to push out her dad's genes, and then pull this back in. The tradition of Jesus also being a virgin could have occurred by default, since this gene shuffle could impact the final human.

    Although this is different, we can accept a man in a women's body; sex change operation, where there are transposed elements of male and female, with part of the female genes used for the body and males genes for the mind. It follows that other extrusion ratios are possible. The pulling in of extruded genes for self fertilization, would be very rare.
  20. Rita Registered Member

  21. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

    There are two others that spring to mind, Abraham and Sarah and John the Baptist's mother, both were barren till intervention by "angels".
    Note these women were not virgins.
    Why would Mary have to be virgin? Interesting question but it had been prophesied years before that it would be like this. Certainly makes the parents aware of the nature of the child they are dealing with. Imagine if it happened to you?
  22. IfIonlyhadabrain Registered Member

    Hi Medicine Woman! I've missed you!

    Your analysis of the word virgin, while generally true, isn't precisely accurate. Virginity does refer to youth, and being unmarried, but it does also refer to not having had sexual intercourse.

    Mary wasn't merely said to have given a virgin birth, but was also said to have been a perpetual virgin. If you were right regarding how we should read "virgin," then this would mean either that she was perpetually young, or perpetually unmarried. We know both of these to be untrue. Mary grew old, and she also marriged Joseph.

    The perpetual virginity of Mary has been held by the Catholic Church since its early days, and was held by

    •St. Irenaeus (III, 21; see Eusebius, Church History V.8),
    •Origen (Adv. Cels., I, 35),
    •Tertullian (Adv. Marcion., III, 13; Adv. Judæos, IX),
    •St. Justin (Dialogue with Trypho 84),
    •St. John Chrysostom (Hom. v in Matth., n. 3; in Isa., VII, n. 5);
    •St. Epiphanius (Hær., xxviii, n. 7),
    •Eusebius (Demonstrat. ev., VIII, i),
    •Rufinus (Lib. fid., 43),
    •St. Basil (in Isa., vii, 14; Hom. in S. Generat. Christi, n. 4, if St. Basil be the author of these two passages),
    •St. Jerome and Theodoretus (in Isa., vii, 14),
    •St. Isidore (Adv. Judæos, I, x, n. 3),
    •St. Ildefonsus (De perpetua virginit. s. Mariæ, iii).

    Mary's virginity was defined in the third canon of the Lateran Council in 649AD.

    Moreover, the Gospel accounts themselves indicate that indicate that Mary's virginity referred to her not having had sexual intercourse. Luke 1:34-35 says "Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." The phrase "I know not man" was a euphamism that meant she hadn't had intercourse.

    What you have said is true, "virgin" did refer to young women, and unwed women, but it did so because such women would have been understood to have not yet engaged in sexual intercourse.
  23. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    As mentioned in a prior Post, the link provided by Andy1033 does not apply to mammals. The following is from that link:
    Aside from the above, eggs from a mammal only have half the genetic material required for the development of viable offspring.

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