Violence by women getting encouragement in the public?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by angrybellsprout, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Qlsvc2AA0

    Who would have guessed that such violent acts would be acceptable in the media?

    Maybe some guy should make a song about how you burned me so i burned down your house and get rich too? I mean the feminists should encourage equality in violence too, right?
     
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  3. LadyMidnight Catherine J. Registered Senior Member

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    How about this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpgkFiYSRyA

    There is equality with gender violence... both men and women can be horrible.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Well, since you ask ....

    Only if people rely on superficial interpretations. Of course, that is a clear and present danger with pop music. Still, though, the song is about the futility of such behavior. The repetition of the idea that he deserved it is a psychological device: If she says it enough, she might come to believe it.

    In the end, it's an empty justification.

    The song is fairly simple: No, it didn't mend her broken heart. So she doesn't care about that. Then she says she didn't want to, but she's glad she did it anyway because he needs to learn a lesson. She says it helped at least a little, that she discovered strength in the courage to make the demonstration, and is glad to see that he has seen what his behavior earns. After all, while it may be childish to behave that way, she deserves to smile. She thinks he should feel lucky he stopped there, and reiterates that while it may be childish behavior on her part, she deserves to smile. She laments how badly his actions hurt her feelings, says he can't understand. And she reiterates that she isn't sorry, that he deserved it; in fact, she reiterates it twice in one verse. Quite clearly, her actions are revenge, as the next verse makes clear. But, in the end, it is futility: Why is she the one crying? She is still hurt, and busting up his car has done nothing to make that go away; after all, she's the one still crying.

    This sector of pop music is fairly easy to interpret, since it rarely conceals its story, insight, or message.

    One might wonder how a song about the futility of violence gets twisted into the idea of encouraging violence. Then again, it might be perfectly clear to another.

    So, who would have guessed that such violent acts would be acceptable in the media? Perhaps those so superficial as to utterly fail to understand an idiot-simple pop song.
     
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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    anyone who dumps a woman who would do that has made a very good chioce. and who can blame him?
     
  8. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    There is a little problem here.

    Eminem was attacked by the media and many in the public.

    To make an appropriate analogy, you'd need to find me a song that was n't attacked in the same manner that pretty much any of Eminiem's stuff has been.
     
  9. LadyMidnight Catherine J. Registered Senior Member

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    Find me a song by a woman who talks about murdering her husband and having her child help her dump the body. To make an appropriate analogy, you need to do that. Smashing windows doesn't compare to the kind of stuff he said in his songs.

    I'm not a feminist nazi by any means, but the truth is that men (especially in Hip Hop) are far more degrading towards women in their songs than women are to men.
     
  10. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    I thought it was because he cheated on her... Or maybe I'm confusing it with another song.
     
  11. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/tampacalling/2009/01/12/songs-about-women-murdering-men/

     
  12. LadyMidnight Catherine J. Registered Senior Member

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    Copernicus - All songs you mentioned are about women murdering men who were severely abusive. It's not a crime, it's self-defense. I had a feeling someone would mention the song by Miranda Lambert and I'm glad you did because it is particularly awesome. Her abusive husband is getting out of jail, going home to beat her up again, and she's waiting with a cigarette, 6-pack of beer, and a shotgun. Southern broads are awesome.

    However, it is a crime to cut someone's throat for cheating on you. It doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman. Remember Clara Harris back in '02 or '03 who flattened out her husband (by running him over in her car) after catching him cheating? She didn't get away with it, nor should she have.
     
  13. Roman Banned Banned

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    Murdering someone because the hit you is, actually, a crime.
     
  14. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    A friend of mine predicted that you would make that response. How very uncanny.

    But the thing is, the examples in all of the four songs aren't acts of self-defense. They are acts of revenge, examples of taking the law into one's own hands instead of seeking assistance from the appropriate authorities. You could also argue that these songs demonise men, portraying them as violent abusive brutes who beat up on innocent martyred women.

    Remember Mary Wilker, who offered unsubstantiated claims of domestic abuse in order to justify the murder of her husband, and as a result got away with a slap on the wrist? From memory she shot him in the back while he was lying in bed. Uhh, yeah, self-defense.
     
  15. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Not if you're a woman. You can claim 'battered wife syndrome', that years of abuse made you 'snap'.
     
  16. LadyMidnight Catherine J. Registered Senior Member

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    If someone is beating on you, and you feel that your life is in imminent danger, you have the right to kill them.
     
  17. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Of course when women write songs about getting revenge on their men by murdering them it is all kinds of funny, but it isn't quite so funny when Eminiem talks about murdering his wife when she refuses to let him spend time with his daughter?

    Still, Eminiem was protested and attacked for his songs, but most of the songs promoting violence by women, especially the one in the OP, are celebrated as 'empowering'.

    Just kind of telling how the sexists will always excuse acts of violence by women.
     
  18. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Looks like our sexist doesn't understand the definition of the word imminent.
     
  19. LadyMidnight Catherine J. Registered Senior Member

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    The all-too-frequent scenario is the one in Lambert's song. She did call the cops and he did go to jail. Only to get out shortly afterwards and go back after her. In nearly every case where battered woman's syndrome was used, the cops were frequently called to the residence for domestic violence. The perpetrator often went to jail and was released only to terrorize her again. Men are stronger making it difficult for a woman to fend him off during an attack. Sometimes a weapon needs to be used. If he winds up dead - oh, well. The world is a safer place.
     
  20. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Never have I heard such constant whining.

    Shooting abusive husbands seems like a good way to reduce the drain on law enforcement and get them out of the gene pool. The first time she shows up in ER covered in bruises just give her a gun and send her home.
     
  21. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    I agree. Give everyone a gun, so that they can shoot anyone who assaults them. The next time a guy's girlfriend slaps him, he can blast her brains all over the pavement. No doubt society would be much improved if such measures were used to weed out moronic, abusive bitches.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    The "duh" factor, twice over

    In the United States of America, a child digging through a trash can looking for food is considered justification to kill. Asking directions is considered justification to kill. Trick-or-treating on Hallowe'en has been asserted an imminent threat. If these people felt that their lives were in imminent danger, then an actual assault qualifies, as well.

    Furthermore, you need to look beyond the superficial. Violence is violence, but not all violence is the same. I've been assaulted by a girlfriend before, but she's 4'10, and weighed all of ninety-five pounds at the time. At no time did I think my life was in danger. To the other, the way I hit people, if I had hit her back, there is a strong chance that I would have killed her. And I'm not a particularly strong specimen of human masculinity.

    • • •​

    As a general note, I still think it interesting that all argument this comes about because someone can't understand the story told in a shitty pop song.
     
  23. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    No offense, but I think you're exaggerating slightly when you claim that you could kill anyone in one hit. I guess if she fell and hit her head, but then the same could happen to you.

    But a few questions. If someone is physically weaker than you, you will allow them to assault you with impunity? You will only retaliate to defend yourself when the assaulter is physically stronger? And more importantly, would you apply the same standards to a male who was physically weaker than you? If so, I would love to see how you would react if I walked up to you in the street and start wailing on, getting in a few good crotch kicks and eye gouges.

    As the old saying goes: If you're man enough to hit a man, then you're man enough to be hit by a man. If any adult, male or female, assaults me, I will do whatever is necessary to defend myself against injury and pain. If I hurt the assaultee in the process, tough shit for them. The gene pool is better off without idiots who are stupid enough to initiate violence against someone bigger and stronger than them.
     

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