Veracity of Biblical History

Let's be sure to support any claims we make in this forum with sources that we might all be able to evaluate and compare/contrast in discussion. Otherwise, please don't bother posting.

 

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If the Israelites were actually Canaanites, as skin claims, then why did they ostensibly destroy their own cities, cities such as Lachish, Ai, Hazor, and Jericho?

King Solomon used the old Canaanite city of Megiddo as a regional base.

 

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What is apparent in the archaeological record is that people of the Canaan highlands settled into sedentary societies. The only difference among the new settlements, archaeologically, is the absence of pigs. An indication that the newly sedentary people were looking for ways to create ethnic identity. But this is in the 7th century BCE. There's no, absolutely no, evidence that there were any people who identified themselves as "Israelite" in the Late Bronze Age as indicated.

With regard to destructions of cities, there is evidence for destruction, but rarely does the evidence coincide with biblical mythology.

Lachish was destroyed by the Assyrians in the late 7th century BCE and the Babylonians in the early 6th. I think this actually correlates with biblical narrative.

At Ai, however, Judith Marquet-Krause excavated the site and found no sign that there was a settlement in the Late Bronze Age. There was a large city in the Early Bronze Age, a full millennium before the collapse of Late Bronze Age Canaan. The site was excavated again a few decades later and, still, no indication of a destruction as indicated in the biblical myth that tells of Joshua's clever ambush. There simply was no settlement here at the time the bible claims.

The same is true for Jericho. There was no trace at all of settlement at Jericho during the 13th century BCE (Late Bronze Age) when Joshua was supposed to have "brought the walls tumbling down" with his trumpets. There was an earlier settlement in the 14th century, but it was small, poor and unfortified.

Hazor was the only city that appeared to be destroyed in the 13th century BCE. It was a great city and its destruction was swift and thorough as evident in the archaeological record. There is no indication that this city was destroyed by "Israelites," indeed, as I've demonstrated above, "Israelites" simply didn't exist in the Late Bronze Age. Their "history" was apparently invented in the 7th Century to solidify their growing ethnic identity as they sought to separate themselves from other inhabitants of the region. This is not inconsistent with demographic models of the rise of complexity among civilizations around the world as presented by scholars like Luis Binford et al. Hazor, therefore, was probably attacked and destroyed by a rival city-state, one that might not even have been in Canaan at all.

References:

Gitin, S.; Mazar, A.; Stern, E. (1998). The Mediterranean peoples in transition: thirteenth to early tenth centuries BCE. Jerusalem.

Yadin, Y. (1982). Is the biblical account of the Israelite conquest of Canaan historically reliable? Biblical Archaeology Review 8, 16-23.

And here's a drawing I made from two sources of the Levant in order to give those that are interested an idea of the geography. It doesn't include, however, the Egyptian Delta region or the Sinai. Sorry.

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Pritchard, J. (1958). The Ancient Near East Vol I: An Anthology of Texts and Pictures. Princeton.

Davies, G. (1985). Megiddo. Lutterworth Press: Cambridge

 

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Skinwalker:

I especially enjoy the Andrew Lloyd Weber musical about Joseph and his coat, particularly since it follows the biblical narrative fairly closely, and it is a highly intriguing and complex story that incorporates many attributes of human fallibility. As they say, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, and the general story line accordingly, to myself anyway, has the ring of truth.

Is it not possible that the "apparently invented" history is actually based on a collection of many stories, passed down generation to generation by way of oral tradition, in which the telling of the story resembles the fisherman talking about the fish that got away - i.e. filled with embellishment to drive home various points?

It was my understanding that most biblical scholars believe that the first five books of the "Old Testament" were written in essentially one writing period during the course of a few years by someone actually named Moses, who relied upon a collection of previous writings that he in turn had inherited.

The accuracy and veracity of each story within those writings is what is at issue, not the fact that there were twelve tribes descended from Joseph's day which inhabited those lands, only to be driven off, etc.

Any thoughts on that?

 

Very good Walter, Moses did receive records from his ancestors, probably clay tablets, as in Genesis, when it says "these are the generations of.....," generations means origins, toledot, the Hebrew word for origins, or ancestors, the Greek word Genesis, so Moses received clay tablets of from the his ancestors, such as Noahs, Shem, Adam, etc., who wrote on tablets, then signed off at the bottom, the colophon, "these are the generations of .....," so they recorded the happening whichs they witnessed or were told to them, from Adam, down to Moses.

Corroboratively, the Hebrew word for to write means to cut in, a la, cut in clay tablets.

The only toledot passage in Genesis which does not have a person ascribed to it is Genesis 2:4, "these are the generations (toledots, geneses) of the heavens and the earth," because no human was there to witness it, the next toledot passage is Adam's.

 

How is taking the word of an author you've never met...and don't even know exists demon-strable.....?
And how is their word more believable to you than the Word of God in the Bible?

Because perhaps they say what you are wanting to hear?
There would be plenty of authors that say otherwise.
For one you've purposely not gone back far enough.

Yes, in 700 BC you're going to find relations between Israelites and Canaanites....they were in captivity in Babylon for 70 years.

The conquering of Canaan by Israel in the demonstration of God's supernatural power by Faith was over a thousand years earlier.

I've studied history for thirty years....do I have to publish my findings and sell the truth to be accepted as demonstrable in your opinion.?

Not going to happen.
That's why you won't find the truth being published and sold, it's to be given out freely....without money or price.

 

Skinwalker, what's on the other side of the paper on which you wrote the map?

 

I've met two of the three authors above. Why would I accept that this "word" of a god to be factual? There simply is no reason to believe that a mythical being can actually impart knowledge to real people. Lets try to restrict our arguments to reality-based ones, eh?

There's a religious and pseudoscience subforum where you can discuss you fantasies.

I think it was the table of dates and periods that I included in the earlier post.

 

reality is subjective.
so, what you mean to say is: lets try to restrict our arguments to "skinwalker reality" based ones, yes?

 

Hey skin, did you get the copies of my book, Ice Age Civilizations, which you requested?

 

No. I mean lets restrict conversation and discussion to things that are at least potentially falsifiable. Whether you find reality subjective or objective is your own issue, but biblical mythology cannot be used to provide veracity for itself. From here on, please keep the comments on-topic. If you have questions or concerns about the moderation of comments and discussion, PM me or an admin or post them in the Site Feedback subforum. All others in this thread will be deleted as off-topic.

Not yet, but I haven't been to the mailbox in a few days. Will go today.

 

I think you'll find it to be an intriguing and concise take on ancient history.

 

I received all three (though, one would have sufficed). Without having read them, I can only say that the cover design is sleek and the binding is well done. The publisher, if a vanity publishing house, did a good job.

I'll get to read it in the next few weeks.

Thanks for the effort you went through sending them.

 

You're welcome, and yeh, it was printed just outside of Detroit, for about $2 per copy.

 

Anybody who wants to read up on the veracity of new testament history should read 'The Jesus Dynasty' by archeologist James D. Tabor, pub. this year.

Im just finishing it now.

 

Wow....a real archaeologist?
The same group who requires it's initiates to agree to perpetuate blatantly ignorant bold faced lies to cover up the real history of mankind, or their initiates don't get to become "real" archaeologists that can write official books by official experts.....and make all that money selling the lies.

But luckily I see James Tabor is not an archaeologist, he is Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina

James Tabor's doctorate emphasized Christian Origins and ancient Judaism.
He was only taken to the holy lands by an Israeli archaeologist as a guide, to receive the experiences he wrote of in his book.


Nice little study about the Messiah the Jews missed when He came two thousand years ago.....blinded by their traditions they missed their "day of visitation"

But it mentions nothing of what God is doing today.

Nothing about the Messiah the Gentiles missed in our day about 40 years ago when He came to grant their long sought "day of visitation".....blinded by their traditions.

All the great Christian denominations, saw the miracles, followed for a season.
But when He sat down to teach the Word , "the Voice of the Sign ".....they all with one accord turned Him down and walked away like the 70 ministers in John 6:66, showing they had "the mark", "of their father the devil".
Just like those Jews two thousand years ago.

Babylon is fallen, and become a hold for foul spirits, a cage for hateful and unclean birds.

The truth isn't sold for money .....you can't buy it at Barnes and Nobles for 49.95.

You won't find it being sold for money, because those who "speak that we do know" are commanded not to do it.

It is to be given out freely, without money or price.

 

Interesting. And you have evidence to back this bold and audacious claim? If not, can we dismiss it out of hand?

And what, specifically, independently verifies this. Remember, this is a History subforum, and in History, we use the methods of science to arrive at tentative conclusions. One of those methods involves archaeology, which can be used to independently verify historical accounts and the veracity of mythology.

Whether you buy a representation of the truth or verify it for yourself, the truth is objective and at least potentially falsifiable. Lets stick to this sort of truth, shall we?

 

You of all people have seen plenty of "evidence" I've provided over the years SkinWalker.
Too much for your own good.
You just refuse to accept it.

It would have been better not to have known, than to have heard it and walk away.
JOHN 6:66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Doing that makes a person a two-fold child of hell.
Just what I discussed above.

 

Honestly, I have yet to see any evidence of most of the wild claims you've made over the many months you've been posting here. I really wasn't kidding when I said I rarely read your posts, particularly the looonng ones that have lots of scripture references and such.

But regardless of whether or not *I've* seen your "evidence," you should have the common courtesy to those that read *this* thread to post citations to this "evidence." Am I right or wrong about that? Again, this must be evidence that is available for testing and falsification, otherwise it really isn't evidence at all.

 

You would have a point if this were "secular" history we were discussing.
However it is not.
It is Biblical history, and as such Biblical truths of a spiritual nature can not be revealed by flesh and blood......
It is only revealed, by their Father which is in in Heaven.

MATTHEW 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

I have pointed them in the right direction only.....
They rest of the journey they must take for themselves.