Veracity of Biblical History

While I think some correlation to actual history can be found in the Bible, one should not automatically assume all of it is unbiased truth.

Putting aside the possibility of divinely inspired miracles, one can hardly accept the idea of a flight of a large group of slaves from Egypt through the heavily guarded border fortifications into the desert and then into Canaan in the time of such a formidable Egyptian presence. Any group escaping Egypt against the will of the pharaoh would have easily been tracked down not only by an Egyptian army chasing it from the delta but also by the Egyptian soldiers in the forts in northern Sinai and in Canaan (id. 61, Did the Exodus Happen).

The conclusion—that the Exodus did not happen at the time and in the manner described in the Bible—seems irrefutable when we examine the evidence at specific sites where the children of Israel were said to have camped for extended periods during their wandering in the desert…. Not even a single shred left by a tiny fleeing band of frightened refugees (id. 63).

Unfortunately for those seeking a historical Exodus, they were unoccupied precisely at the time whey reportedly played a role in the events of the wandering of the children of Israel in the wilderness (id. 64).

As with the Exodus story, archaeology has uncovered a dramatic discrepancy between the Bible and the situation within Canaan at the suggested date of the conquest, between 1230 and 1220 BCE (76, A Different Kind of Canaan).

It is highly unlikely that the Egyptian garrisons throughout the country would have remained on the sidelines as a group of refugees (from Egypt) wreaked havoc throughout the province of Canaan (id. 79).

Only recently has the consensus finally abandoned the conquest story (id. 83).

http://skeptically.org/oldtestament/id7.html

 

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Then why do the Jews say they came out of Egypt?

 

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Authors argue no compelling archaeological evidence exists for many biblical stories.

In those times, conquering a land was seen as more legitimate than simply claiming ownership through constant habitation.

 

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Where is the evidence that there were hundreds of thousands of Jews in Canaan circa 1800 B.C.?

It is interesting that on the upper parts of doorposts and on their cross beams of the house ruins at ancient Amarna in Egypt is red paint.

 

I want to say two things in a quick post before I go to work:

1) I've much to say on this topic and I'm willing to write a lengthy post in the next day or so that covers a few problems with biblical mythology, specifically addressing Ice's claim that archaeology "supports" biblical myths. However, ...

2) There's been a lot of tit-for-tat, back-and-forth banter that doesn't advance an intelligent discussion in this thread. Such ad hominem remarks and comments, however subtle or innocuous, do not make the thread appealing for those that wish to seriously participate in discussion.

Therefore, I'm seriously considering moving this to the cesspool. But if this sort of banter discontinues, perhaps I can be encouraged to clean up the off-topic posts and keep it here. I leave the decision to those who have participated until now and I'll decide a course of action tonight.

 

Why did the Norwegians claim the sun was the eye of a giant squid?

Why did Native Alaskans say that man was created by Raven, from clay?

 

So, Roman, from where do you think the Jews came?

Devil, the links you posted don't prove that Nazareth didn't exist at the time of Christ, you should know that, wishful thinking perhaps?

 

That does not change the fact that there is no physical record of the flood. That can only mean one thing... no flood. Unless you can tell me where the flaw in my logic is (and I'm sure there is at least one, if not several), then I consider this matter closed.

Atheist 1, theist 0 Kachang!!

 

Sedimentary rocks, usually stacked conformably, grading from one to the next, with billions of creatures entombed therein (99% of which are marine creatures), nice physical record, matter closed?

 

Why would marine creatures get buried in a flood?

 

That does not change the fact of the ice core showing no record of a flood and you have not addressed that. Localized flooding happens all the time but spidergoat makes a good point. Marine creatures? However, if you cannot show me why the ice cores may be wrong then, yes, this matter is closed.

 

Mega wave action, deep to shallow, onto the continents and into continental geosynclines, and over pre-Deluge hills as submarine mudflows into the interior as the Deluge water covered the low relief topography of the pre-Deluge world, Pangea.

The thousands of feet of ice smushed the layers.

 

smushed?

I don't know what to say to that.....

The ice cores are wrong because they were... smushed...

I know I keep saying this but I'm done here....

 

I pruned as much of this thread as I could to get rid of posts that were off-topic, tit-for-tat, silly banter, or repetitive. The thread topic is NOT "can you disprove biblical narrative/history?" but "veracity of biblical history."

As such, questions that challenge any biblical story as valid, i.e. "can you demonstrate it to be true?", are valid as are challenges to that veracity directly. Sorry Ice, but you chose the thread title and it stands. So if someone asks if you believe the Noachian Flood myth to be a factual account, this is a valid question.

 

An Archaeological Perspective of the Exodus Myth

Archaeological Period...........................Date (BCE)

Early Bronze Age............................................3500-2200
Intermediate Bronze Age..................................2200-2000
Middle Bronze Age..........................................2000-1500
Late Bronze Age.............................................1550-1150
Iron Age I.....................................................1150-900
Iron Age II....................................................900-586
Babylonian Period...........................................586-538
Persian Period................................................538-333


Saul..............1025-1005 BCE
David............1005-970 BCE
Solomon.........970-931 BCE *

*Source: Anchor Bible Dictionary, vol. I, p. 1010

A Brief Introduction
This thread is about the veracity of the bible. Ice has claimed that archaeology supports biblical mythology to the extent that it isn't mythical but factual. I disagree wholeheartedly with that assertion and have yet to see where Ice has supported it with archaeological citations. Not willing to wait on Ice to support his claims (I've a daughter to watch grow up and would rather not miss it), I'll offer some bits of information over the course of the next few weeks or so on what is truly known archaeologically about the region called the Levant as well as some of Egypt in the periods of the Late Bronze Age through the Iron Age II, roughly the 13th through the 7th and early 6th centuries (1550-586) BCE.

The Biblical Claim
The claim is, in a nutshell, this: 600,000 "children of Israel" escaped from Egypt where they were the slaves of the pharaoh. These Israelites were chased by the pharaoh's armies who were unable to catch them. The entire band of 600,000 former slaves "wandered" the desert, camping at various locations, encountering various peoples and kingdoms, and finally settled to form a new nation. All of this occurred, ostensibly, in the 13th century BCE. We "know" this because I Kings 6:1 tells us Solomon's temple was constructed in the 4th year of his rule, 480 years after Exodus. 966 BCE + 480 years = 1446 BCE.

Exodus 1:11 mentions two cities of Egypt: Pi-Ramesses and Pithom as forced labor projects of the Israelites. The first pharaoh named Ramesses is the son of Seti I and reigns in the year 1320 BCE, so even the 480 years of I Kings doesn't work. Pi-Ramesses was built in the Nile Delta during the reign of Ramesses II (1279-1213 BCE) and Egyptian records indicate Semites were used in its construction.

Who Were the Hyksos?
Often in discussions of Exodus and Israelites in Egypt, the Hyksos come into the picture. This is because the Hyksos were Semite in origin, specifically Canaanite. The same progenitor peoples of the modern day Israelites and Palestinians. The Nile Delta, a.k.a. Lower Egypt, was frequently inhabited by migrating peoples and nomads who sought to find refuge in the relatively stable delta ecology, particularly in times of drought and famine. From about 1668 - 1565 BCE, Canaanites occupied the Delta and ruled Lower Egypt. Manethos referred to the them as heku-shoswet, and, Hellenized, it became "Hyksos," which means rulers of a foreign land. This later became a general Egyptian term for Asiatic foreigners.

The Hyksos had a distinctive Canaanite pottery and architecture, which is present in the archaeological record and, according to the Turin Papyrus, they ruled Lower Egypt for 108 years. One of the most prominent of their rulers was Apophis and their capital was Avaris, known today as the archaeological site Tell Daba'a.

Pharaoh Ahmose I (18th Dynasty) sacked Avaris and chased the Hyksos to southern Canaan to their fortress, Sharuhen near modern day Gaza. Ahmose laid siege to the fortress for three years before he stormed it.

From that point, the Egyptians maintained tight control of the border between Eastern Egypt and Canaan.

For those that are quick to pick up on the similarities of the Hyksos and the Exodus tale, it's important to note that the dates also don't line up with the I Kings account and the difference is more than 130 years. Moreover, there is no "Ramesses" for whom a city can be named at this point. Though, the correlation is one to not be quickly dismissed.

What if the Exodus Story Were Concocted?
What if, indeed? Why concoct such a tale and how would we know it was either concocted or true. Believers in Christianity assign varying degrees of trust in Old Testament mythology: some willing to accept it as myth at one extreme; others taking great umbrage to the use of the term "myth" at the other.

But if we hypothesize for a moment that the Exodus narrative (I'll stick to this term) is one that was invented by the authors of Genesis, then what might we expect to find to corroborate the hypothesis?

First, we might expect that narrative be limited to only what the authors knew. Assuming that they didn't have Iron Age archaeologists excavating sites, we can assume that their knowledge was limited to the geography and politics of their time.

Second, if the narrative is an invented one, we would fail to see corroboration in Egyptian texts of it.

Third, if, indeed, this is a narrative invented by a much later author or set of authors, we would not expect to find archaeological evidence that supports it.

Guess What?
The sites mentioned in Exodus are real. This is something that Ice brings up all the time. He's said (and I'm paraphrasing), "if the bible is false, then why do all the sites exist?"

The problem is this: the sites mentioned were sparsely populated by a few pastoralists or otherwise completely unoccupied during the alleged period that Exodus occurred in the Late Bronze Age (13th century BCE). A few were well-known and occupied much earlier and certainly much later than the Late Bronze Age, but during the Exodus period, nada. They were unoccupied at precisely the time they were reported to be by Exodus.

Not only that, but Egyptian texts don't mention "Israelites" at all. If 600,000 slaves escaped the pharaoh, they were so stealthy they slipped past all the border stations that were put into place following the Hyksos expulsion, snuck past each of the fortifications used to supply soldiers along the "Ways of Horus," the 250 km route between Egypt and Gaza. And they successfully eluded Egyptian soldiers that were already present in Canaan, which was controlled by Egypt from the 13th through the 7th centuries BCE. The only mention of "Israel" is on the Merneptah Stele where Merneptah (1213-1203 BCE) boasts that "Isrir lies in waste its seed no more." The lack of a country determinative in the hieroglyphs clearly indicates Merneptah was referring to a people not a country and the depiction of the Israelites on the stele was consistent with Canaanite hair style.

Addressing the third point above, regarding archaeological evidence, our friend Ice is so frequently pointing out that biblical mythology has been the reason behind much of the archaeology in the Levant. This, too, is something that Ice has said which is true (the other being that places in the bible exist). There has been extensive work done in archaeology in the Levant, particularly in the Sinai desert where the "children of Israel" (all 600,000 of them) were said to "wander."

Let's put the number into perspective. Fresno and Mission Viejo, both in California have populations of 500,000. Bakersfield is only 250,000. Vancouver, Canada has a population of 600,000.

Not a single archaeological expedition, and there have been a great many, has discovered evidence of any substantial group of people subsisting off of the land in the Sinai desert or in or near any of the sites mentioned in Exodus. According to the biblical narrative, the equivalent of the population of Vancouver was moving around and camping in the desert for 40 years. Not only were they stealthy (not encountering the Egyptian armies who recorded even encounters with a few nomadic pastoralists tending their flocks); but they were frugal! Not a single pot sherd has been found!

Not a single campsite or site of occupation has been found with the exception of the well-documented coastal forts and stations of the Egyptian army for the period of Ramesses II or for any of his immediate predecessors or successors. There have been repeated archaeological excavations at the site of St. Catherine's Monastary in the Sinai, where Moses is supposed to have spoken to a burning bush, but the results have always been negative evidence. Not a single sherd or indication that the site was occupied in the Late Bronze Age. Modern archaeological techniques can trace the remains of hunter-gather and pastoral nomads all over the world, but cannot find a population the size of that of Vancouver in a barren desert! Indeed, the activity of a small population of pastoralists is present in the 3rd millennium (2000-3000) BCE, as well as in the Hellenistic and Byzantine periods. But the evidence is NON-EXISTENT for the Late Bronze Age.

Tell Arad
East of Beersheba there is the remains of a great Early Bronze Age city that spans about 25 acres. A "tell" is a mound of past human habitation that has since eroded from mud bricks to a pile of dirt, often built upon again and again over many generations. This tell also became an Iron Age fort, but there are no remains for the Late Bronze Age when Exodus is alleged to have happened.

This directly contradicts the biblical narrative since the king of Arad "who dwelt in the Negeb" attacked the Israelites who appealed for divine intervention to destroy the Canaanite cities (Num. 21:1-3). There's no evidence of Arad anywhere in the Beersheba valley (Negeb).

Tell Heshban
The wandering Jews supposedly did battle here with the Ammorite king, Sihon, who tried to block there passage (Num. 21:21-25). Excavations here reveal NO Bronze Age city. Not even a village.

Eddom and Ammon were alleged to be full-fledge states ruled by kings on the Transjordan plateau, yet the evidence shows that the plateau was sparsely inhabited by pastoralist populations in the Bronze Age. Not a single sedentary population is evident in the archaeological record.

Conclusion
Clearly, Exodus was a story written by authors in the 7th century, or possibly as late as the 6th century, BCE. The place names mentioned above existed in by the 7th century but not in the Bronze Age. Iron Age authors would have known of the many public works created by the Saite Dynasty in Egypt's 26th Dynasty, who employed the largest numbers of foreign settlers. A large community of immigrants from Judah was present from the 7th through the 6th centuries. Pithom, mentioned in Exodus 1:11, was built in the 7th century. Migdol, mentioned in Exodus 14:2, was built in the 7th century.

Exodus did not happen in the period or in the manner in which it is portrayed in biblical mythology.

Useful References:


Beitak, M. (1996). Avaris the capital of the Hyksos: recent excavations of Tell el-Daba. London

Finkelstein, I. & Silberman, N.A. (2001). The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and The Origin of its Sacred Texts. New York

Oren, E.D. (1987). The "Ways of Horus" in North Sinai. In Rainey, A.F. (editor), Egypt, Israel, Sinai: Archaeological and Historical Relationships in the Biblical Period. Tel-Aviv

Redford, D.B. (1992). Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times. Princeton

Redford, D.B. (1987) An Egyptological perspective on the Exodus narrative. In: Rainey, A.F. (editor), Egypt, Israel, Sinai: Archaeological and Historical Relationships in the Biblical Period. Tel-Aviv

Redford, D.B. (1973). Studies in Relations between Palestine and Egypt during the First Millennium B. C.: II. The Twenty-Second Dynasty Journal of the American Oriental Society, 93(1), pp. 3-17.

 

Uh, skin, the Canaanites were Hamitic.

And skin, you keep forgetting, no archaeological discovery has disproven a Biblical account. Just because a few sites haven't been discovered doesn't mean the historical events didn't happen.

Remember the Hittites of the Bible? They too were thought to have been mythological until the ruins of Hittite cities were discovered.

The Canaanites, who skin says were progeny of Shem, worshipped Melkart and Baal, burned babies in the at the altars to those gods, and disappeared from history (except the Phoenicians) circa 1400 B.C., when Israel took over the Canaanites land.

 

When discussing topics of "veracity" on a Science forum's History section, what we're going to be concerned with is that which can be demonstrable. Based on the archaeological finds of the Syro-Palestinian region, there is no reason to think that the Israelites were nothing more than sedentized Canaanites.

This is supported by archaeological finds in the region. Israelites were settled people of the pastoral Canaan highlands. Nothing in archaeology is inconsistent with this hypothesis. Please 'demonstrate' what you're claiming by citing some sources that we can compare and contrast with those below. I'm genuinely interested.

References:

Dever, W.G. (1995). Ceramics, Ethnicity, and the Question of Israel's Origin. Biblical Archaeologist, 58, 200-213.

Finkelstein, I. (1988). The archaeology of the Israelite Settlement. Jerusalem.

Finkelstein, I. (1996). Ethnicity and Origin of the Iron I Settlers in the Highlands of Canaan: Can the Real Israel Stand Up? Biblical Archaeologist, 59, 198-212.

Steger, L.E. (1985). The Archaeology of the Family in Ancient Israel. Bulletin of the American Schoools of Oriental Research, 260, 1-35.

 

There is no evidence of Israelites in Canaan 'til circa 1400 B.C., before that date, Canaanite city states dominated the region, they just discovered some Canaanite ruins at Megiddo, for instance, then, the Israelite culture took over.

The Phoenicians (Canaanites, Sidon, Posidon) did cooperate with Israel after the time of The Judges, when Solomon got Hiram to help build the first Temple, but the rest of the Canaanites had vanished from the stage circa 1400 B.C.

 

There is no evidence of any "Israelite invasion" of Canaan, nor is there any evidence to support a quiet immigration. What there *is* evidence for is the transition of Canaanite pastoralists (nomadic herders living in the Canaan highlands) making the cyclic transition from nomadic to sedentary -a cycle that is present throughout the archaeological record- at around the 7th century BCE. This is clear and unmistakable evidence in the archaeological record and is thoroughly discussed in the sources I mentioned.

Canaanites became Israelites, Moabites, Eddomites, Amorites, etc.

 

Canaanites were Hamitic, Israelites were Shemitic.

So where did the "other" Canaanites disappear to circa 1400 B.C.?