Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Magical Realist, Feb 8, 2015.
It's been 28 pages and you STILL believe there's a link between vaccines and autism?
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You complained about various warnings you have been given by another moderator in this thread. I reviewed your complaint and downgraded your warning points as a result.
You opened this thread by posting a lie: that you weren't against vaccinations and you were interested in both sides of the vaccination "debate". I judge that you were never interested in the "other side".
You have spent much of the thread spamming sciforums with anti-vaccination propaganda, including unreliable and discredited scientific studies. By posting this material, and seeking to convince others not to vaccinate their children, you are endangering lives. There is a real risk that somebody will act on what you have posted so as not to protect their children from dangerous illnesses.
This is what I told you in the message I sent to you concerning your complaint.
Not "the human race". Just some individual lives. Read what I wrote. I have posted it again in this post.
Thanks for the clarification, then.
What do you mean by "overvaccinated"? How many vaccines, in what period of time, would amount to "overvaccination"?
I don't believe you have discussed overvaccination so far in this thread. Why didn't you make your position clear from the start?
This thread has 560 posts and counting. If you feel that one of your posts on overvaccination is particularly relevant, please link it. Are you surprised that I haven't remembered every single word - or even every post - of this thread?
Again, read what I wrote. I have included it again in this post.
Wakefield is a good example of a discredited study - in this case the one that started the ball rolling on this whole vaccines-cause-autism nonsense.
It looks like you're looking for any excuse to run away from a position you can't support.
PS If I intended to "ban discussion of the vaccine/autism link", then would I not have closed and/or deleted this thread, and/or banned you from taking further part in it?
In my opinion, other members here have done an excellent job in debunking your anti-vax conspiracy theory. I'm glad this thread is here for people who may be in doubt about vaccinations to find if they search the internet. It is a good counter to the anti-vax propaganda, which is so harmful.
On the contrary, it is you who is looking for any excuse to infract me and silence my position, which as we know can always be twisted into trolling or posting unsupported claims or spamming or whatever you wanna call it. I've just spent 6 days arguing this with supporting scientific papers and good arguments, all the while abused and flamed as a danger to babies. I'm not going thru all that again with you. You basically all just say the same things anyway. So to spare me anymore trumped up charges by mods too pissed off to articulate a calm rational counterargument, I bid you adieu.
And yet when confronted with straighforward explanations and direct questions...
Your position is untenable. Instead of trying to investigate the truth, you're trying to advocate an opinion.
You plagiarised, posted false studies from anti-vaccination sites, you misrepresented other links..
The only person ranting hysterically here is you. For example, my previous post addressed your latest links and I provided you with proof of how and why you were plagiarising and misrepresenting said quotes and the link you provided. Could you please address why you chose to do that in this thread yet again?
The reason I failed to provide the link for that last article is because when I posted it, I couldn't find it again back on Google. I was not plagiarizing or pretending that was my own writing. But it doesn't matter anyway now. James R infracted me for it anyway. That's why I'm leaving. I'm basically a walking target for whatever mods wanna infract me for. And we all know how that works around here.
It took me 30 seconds to find on Google. So you mustn't have looked very hard, or hit search..
Considering you have falsely accused me of deleting tali's post in this thread and all sorts of other things in this thread, you'll excuse me if I don't take note of your latest conspiracy theory.
And you still have not addressed my earlier questions about what you linked.
The thing is... we DO all "know how it works around here"... it works in accordance with the rules and regulations of the site, the very same rules YOU AGREED TO ABIDE BY when you signed up. The fact that you are either unwilling, or incapable, of understanding the difference between science and woo-woo bullshit is... honestly, kind of scary.
I honestly do not think you know how scientific debate works... and for that I am sorry - you seem like someone with passion and pride, someone who has the potential to, perhaps, enact change... the question is, will that change be for better or worse... will it be changes based on legitimate hard fact and science, or emotional woo-woo and untenable theories...
That question has yet to be answered.
The question now is a simple one - if you (the OP) are removing yourself from the discussion... is there any reason for the discussion to continue... or should it end on the note that, once again, legitimate science has prevailed and Vaccines are safe to be administered when done correctly.
End it, it's a farce.
To broaden(and agree), while this thread itself can't have caused any casualties yet, this is a skirmish in the war and MR is a footsoldier for Wakefield's anti-vax brigade. The casualties are well documented and already number in the tens of thousands, from a multitude of illnesses:
As happens, people don't take wars seriously until they reach their shores in a newsworthy incident, so hopefully the California measles outbreak will finally cause us to put some serious effort into fighting back.
Well done for lessening his warning points, but I can't see why he has got any at all from his conduct on this thread.
It's been a very good thread.
If you don't want discussions like this you might as well shut the site down.
Could the increase in autism rates simply be because people are having kids later in life?
I would also like to add that even though mercury has been removed from the MMR vaccine, it was stated in this thread that it is still used in the flu shot. If this is true, then aren't kids still being exposed?
It isn't the material being discussed, but rather the (lack of) evidence being presented, as well as the intentional lack of citations, cherry picking, et al - basically, the fallacious style of argument, which flies against what science is.
Since you are in fact discussing it that is patently false. (Which, of course, never stopped you before.)
Beginning of the thread - "I'm fully on board with getting kids vaccinated."
Then you supported Wakefield's thimerosal studies until even you couldn't support him any more due to the findings of fraud, dishonesty and doctoring of results.
Parents can decide to give their kids "autism from a vaccine (1 in 68 risk)"
Then you claimed "parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk."
Later you " . . .became convinced that there is evidence of an vaccine/autism linkage."
Then you spent ~30 posts claiming measles wasn't a threat.
Then you went on about the "health risks of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines" that were "pushing our children's aluminum threholds to toxic levels."
Thimerosal - "we need to get rid of it."
Now - "in fact I am just not for overvaccinated babies."
See above. You have made almost every possible anti-vaccination claim. You have claimed that ANY vaccination causes autism. You have claimed that thimerosal in vaccines is a big risk, then switched to aluminum is a big risk. You claimed that measles wasn't a significant risk to anyone. Now you're back to "I am for vaccinations, just not for over-vaccinated babies."
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously?
As you've threatened to leave about four times now, I have no expectation that you will be more honest about that than you've been about anything else.
He isn't leaving the site, just this thread.
Although, he could be back on this thread if he forgets.
(MR tempting material)
Did you know that autistic children often see ghosts?
Ahh, I see. Which element of the post was off topic? Was it where I pointed out that units of measurement cited in the thread had been confused, or that a scientific term (ie. parenteral) had not be clarified? Was it the part where I stated that I disagreed with Magical Realist? Or was it the part where I implied that his detractors had behaved like arrogant illogical manchildren? Obviously my post wasn't that far off topic, since it was liked and quoted by several members.
Oh, that reminds me. You might want to get a lesson from your protege James R on how to surreptitiously delete posts. In order to stealth delete posts successfully, you need to also remove all reference to them.
Some of the posts that referenced it were still on topic to some extent, and thus were left.
And for the record, an implied insult is still an insult... so
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There's no reason why we should stop this thread just because MR isn't here.
We can discuss positive things about vaccines.
I'll start us off.
Which is your favourite vaccine, and why?
Mine is the smallpox vaccine, because it eradicated smallpox.
Separate names with a comma.