Vaccine related autism study?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Magical Realist, Feb 8, 2015.

Page 28 of 31
  1. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
    Magical Realist, Feb 18, 2015
    #541

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  3. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    The study that looked at 14 million children was not a Danish study. That study was conducted by the Cochrane Collaboration, which is not Danish.

    So could you please explain what you are talking about?

    Perhaps it is you who is not in the same thread. Did you even read the links I provided to those actual scientific studies? I understand you may find it strange, because they are not links to woo woo conspiracy sites you seem to constantly frequent, but to actual scientific journal sites...

    And your link is not to anything scientific (and is about a guy who skimmed $2 million to buy a house and car). It is to an anti-vaccination site.

    Now, can you please explain to us, with scientific links, why not giving children the MMR vaccine still saw an increase in ASD being diagnosed in children in Japan? If the MMR vaccine is causing it, why was it still on the rise in children who were not vaccinated?
     
    Bells, Feb 18, 2015
    #542

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  5. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    • Part of this post is plagiarised from an unacknowledged source. Members are reminded not to plagiarise.
    My bad. Here's a report on this Cochrane study. Apparently there were major conflicts of interest here in this report helping the British govt to avoid vaccine damage lawsuits. There are also major issues of proper science being done. See the report here:

    http://www.jpands.org/vol11no4/millerc.pdf

    As for the Japanese study, here's some info on that:

    5. No Effect of MMR Withdrawal on the Incidence of Autism: A Total Population Study (Honda, 2005)

    Question Asked: Did MMR withdrawal in Japan in 1993 have an effect on incidence of Autism?

    Published Conclusion: No, but admits, "Epidemiological data, however, cannot test the very different hypothesis that MMR might involve an increased risk of ASD in a very small number of children who, for some reason, are unusaually susceptible to damage from the vaccine." Well, no kidding.

    Conflicts: None listed.

    Problems:

    • Study did not address the affected children. A recalculation of the data does show that the MMR does appear to have had an affect on Autism Spectrum Disorder rates. And finally, while children in the study were not vaccinated with MMR in 1994 and beyond for some time, children were still vaccinated against Measles and Rubella between 12 and 36 months; Mumps was optional for children on year or older. No never-vaccinated children were studied.
    Actual Conclusion: Study tells us nothing about a subset of children who could be affected by MMR.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
    Magical Realist, Feb 18, 2015
    #543

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  7. Russ_Watters

    Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Here's another question for you to run from:
    Given two apparently contradictory standards from the same source, how did you decide which to believe? Did you:

    -Flip a coin?
    -Identify the most relevant one, discard it, and select the other one?
    -Just believe what the anti-vax site said without putting any thought into it yourself?
    -Not even slow down so much in your copy-paste-flooding to read the content you were copy-paste-flooding? (Full disclosure: the relevant part was just above what you copy-paste-flooded, so only by very lackadasical skimming would it have been possible for you to have missed it.)
     
    Russ_Watters, Feb 18, 2015
    #544
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  8. Russ_Watters

    Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    [retracted -- unsure]
     
    Russ_Watters, Feb 18, 2015
    #545
  9. Russ_Watters

    Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Here's another question for you to ignore: why do you cite sources that you believe are unreliable - even fraudulent?
     
    Russ_Watters, Feb 18, 2015
    #546
  10. Russ_Watters

    Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Yes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier
    Never a good idea to trust a conclusion of fraud that is provided by a convicted fraud.
     
    Russ_Watters, Feb 18, 2015
    #547
  11. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    What conclusion? The news story is legit. It has nothing to do with Mark Geier.
     
    Magical Realist, Feb 18, 2015
    #548
  12. zgmc

    zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    Is there any info on autism rates in the non vaccinated US population?
     
    zgmc, Feb 18, 2015
    #549
  13. zgmc

    zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    831
    I haven't been able able to find any good data pertaining to my question above, but I did find this.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    zgmc, Feb 18, 2015
    #550
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  14. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Umm.. Clifford G. Miller is a known anti-vaxxer who often features quite prominently along with Andrew Wakefield on anti-vaccine sites. Like this one: "Age of Autism"..


    I was curious about why you did not link this part.

    So I went and searched for it.

    And I found it.

    On an anti-vaccination site:

    5. No Effect of MMR Withdrawal on the Incidence of Autism: A Total Population Study (Honda, 2005)

    Question Asked: Did MMR withdrawal in Japan in 1993 have an effect on incidence of Autism?

    Published Conclusion: No, but admits, "Epidemiological data, however, cannot test the very different hypothesis that MMR might involve an increased risk of ASD in a very small number of children who, for some reason, are unusaually susceptible to damage from the vaccine." Well, no kidding.

    Conflicts: None listed.

    Problems:

    • Study did not address the affected children. A recalculation of the data does show that the MMR does appear to have had an affect on Autism Spectrum Disorder rates. And finally, while children in the study were not vaccinated with MMR in 1994 and beyond for some time, children were still vaccinated against Measles and Rubella between 12 and 36 months; Mumps was optional for children on year or older. No never-vaccinated children were studied.
    Actual Conclusion: Study tells us nothing about a subset of children who could be affected by MMR.    ​


    Could you please explain why you are quoting large chunks of material and not referencing any of it? Are you aware that we take a very dim view of plagiarism?

    I provided you with a link to the actual study.

    Perhaps you should read that instead of plagiarising by quote mining from anti-vaccination sites.

    Could you please provide actual scientific studies that have not been discredited and not quote mined from anti-vaccination sites?
     
    Bells, Feb 18, 2015
    #551
  15. Russ_Watters

    Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, right, I forgot, you don't read your own citations, so I have to explain them to you: Mark Geier is the principal author and funder of the paper that the story is about. He's been stripped of his medical credentials due to fraud/crackpottery and he's accusing the FDA of fraud/crackpottery in the paper that is the source of story you linked.
     
    Russ_Watters, Feb 18, 2015
    #552
  16. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,646
    It would be useful to cross-reference that to the number of pirates. As the number of pirates has decreased, autism rates have increased. It is impossible that this is just a coincidence.
     
    billvon, Feb 18, 2015
    #553
  17. Trippy

    Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Precisely.

    IV solutions are an example of chronic exposure.
    Vaccines are an example of acute exposure.

    As I pointed out pages and pages ago, there is a difference between the two, and chronic exposure usually has a lower limit than acute exposure.
     
    Trippy, Feb 18, 2015
    #554
  18. Daecon

    Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    3,133
    What about social media? I'm sure a correlation can be made between autism and the rise of MySpace, Facebook & Twitter...
     
    Daecon, Feb 18, 2015
    #555
  19. Trippy

    Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Trivially explained - see my previous post.
     
    Trippy, Feb 18, 2015
    #556
  20. Trippy

    Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Did you ever work out what Wakefield's second patent was that he would have benefited greatly from should he have been able to prove his argument?
     
    Trippy, Feb 18, 2015
    #557
  21. Russ_Watters

    Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    This applies to exposure to virtually anything that is potentially harmful (I mentioned x-rays earlier). By profession, I design and study lab ventilation systems. Chemical vapours in the air are measured and rated according to short term and long term exposures -- but minutes and hours, not days and months. For example, one particularly nasty lab vapor:
    https://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3144.html
    15 minute time weighted average exposure limit: 125 ppm
    8-hour time weighted average exposure limit: 25 ppm
     
    Russ_Watters, Feb 18, 2015
    #558
  22. Trippy

    Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    I know - I may work in Environmental law enforcement at the moment, however, I (at one stage) studied for a paper on the UNGHS which included an extensive discussion around toxicology and the various standards (LOAEL, NOAEL, 15 minute, 8 hour, and so on and so forth), had to learn all the hazard phrases, even had to put together our own hazard diamonds SDS's and such .

    We studied Seveso and Bhopal among others.

    I'm lucky in that one of the lecturers involved in the course also headed up/set up the national poisons center

    I've been trying to get him to discuss the difference between acute and chronic exposure since before he was banned by Kitt - maybe I should threaten to ban him until he discusses the differences between them in the context of this discussion and tells us whether or not he's taken the ten minutes out of his life required to watch that video on herd immunity I linked to earlier (at which point he will be able to tell us what Wakefield's other patent was for).
     
    Trippy, Feb 18, 2015
    #559
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  23. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,783
    Well I guess I'm outta here. James R has taken it upon himself to use his own moderator power to ban discussion of the vaccine/autism link. Typical tripe ya know. I'm endangering the human race by suggesting parents not overvaccinate their own babies. Said I lied when I initially said I was for vaccines, which in fact I am just not for overvaccinated babies. That I made clear in the thread, but he apparently forgot about it. Whereas he's removed alot of infraction points I had from Kittamaru, he's basically informed me that the papers I've posted here are made up or retracted or something, which ofcourse is a total lie. I leave you to your own hysterical ranting comforted that I have provided enough information for any other posters here to make their own informed decisions on this matter. Cya folks!
     
    Magical Realist, Feb 18, 2015
    #560
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