USS Liberty...what really happened?

Discussion in 'History' started by Jagger, Jan 15, 2004.

  1. bradguth Banned Banned

    Messages:
    226
    It's not that complicated.

    They screwed up a little by exterminating their prisoners, obviously we were too damn close for comfort, and as for recording those Jewish errors in judgment. Then everything went seriously to hell in that hand-basket.

    From that point on, it was simply lie your butt off or else.
     
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  3. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,383
    It was not absolutely clear who would win the 1967 war and what the Russians would do for their allies that were being attacked. During the nevada nuclear tests we used our soldiers as guinea pigs. The Gulf of Tonkin resolution was based on a fraud. Bush lied about WMD. Lying to the American people and sacrificing the lives of soldiers have always been normal behavior for the people who advise our presidents.

    There is no way that Israel would have deliberately attacked an American ship without permission. There is no way that Israel's behavior was a case of mistaking the Liberty for the Egyptian ship they claimed to have believed it was.

    The only explanation that makes any sense is that Egypt would be blamed for the sinking of the Liberty if the war did not go well for Israel. The sinking of the Liberty would give America justification for entering the war against Egypt. The use of this justification was not necessary because the war went well for Israel. Israel and America prearranged the attack on the Liberty. Tough luck for the navy personnel who were sacrificed for the national interest.
     
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  5. Hardstuff Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    Please forgive me if it sounds like I'm directly speaking to someone on the topic, I copied this off a site, where I posted all this. I think the name is "yak" or someome... so... don't heed that.
    The US personel actually said the Israelis knew it was a US ship, the Israeli's that turned back and did not attack the ship were arrested, even if it was a mistake, afterwards they knew it was American. Shouldn't they have been released?. Israel and America actually tried to hide the truth.

    The USS Liberty, with 294 men aboard, arrived near the Gaza Strip in the Eastern Mediterranean at 9:00 on the morning of June 8, 1967. This was the fourth day of the Arab-Israeli war.

    “ If we had any fears for our safety, however, these quickly vanished. Much of this coast area had been captured by Israel only hours before our arrival. Israel was our friend. Israeli aircraft had circled us throughout the night, and now, with daylight, they came closer and we could see the Star of David markings. Often they came so close that we could see the pilots in their cockpits and exchanged friendly waves.

    Yet, taking no chances, I ordered the quartermaster to haul up a new flag, with bright and clear colors, and instructed signalmen and lookouts to assure that the flag never wrapped around the lines or mast making it difficult to see even for a few seconds.

    Just before 2:00, radar operators on the ship's bridge detected more approaching high speed aircraft, flying low, coming from the direction of Tel Aviv. These were more of the same aircraft that had been visiting us all day. At the same time our men detected three small surface craft, later determined to be Israeli torpedo boats, just as they came across the visible horizon 16 miles away. ”

    Suddenly at 1400hrs, waves of low-flying Israeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked the American vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes.

    At 1424hrs, three Israeli torpedo boats attacked, raking the burning Liberty with 20mm and 40mm shells. At 1431hrs an Israeli torpedo hit the Liberty mid-ship, precisely where the signals intelligence systems were located.

    The torpedo boats came within 50feet of the ship, couldn't see the American flag on the mast, couldn't see the words "USS LIBERTY" on the stern, couldn't see "GTR-5" in 6 1/2 foot letters on the bow. The boats shot at American sailors on the deck of the Liberty as the sailors tried to help one another. At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship. The Israeli warships closed and poured machine gun fire into the crowded life rafts, sinking two.

    The Israeli attack was broken off almost immediately when they got word that the USS Saratoga had launched
    aircraft to come to the aid of Liberty. The aircraft were mysteriously called-off on orders from the White House.

    The Israeli aircraft, which should have been looking for a ship with large offensive armaments with sufficient range to bombard the shore 15miles away and traveling at high speed, instead found a converted cargo ship, with no offensive armament, and moving at approximately five knots in international waters.

    However the Israelis claim that they wrongly identified the USS Liberty as the Egyptian vessel "El Quseir," which is a horse carrier one-fourth the size of the Liberty with an entirely different appearance.

    All crew members and many Western observers allege that the attack was made deliberately, and reject all these Israeli reports as incomplete.

    Various theories are presented at times as to why they claim that Israel carried out this action; one theory was that Israel was trying to get the U.S. involved in the conflict on Israel's side, by convincing the U.S. that Egypt was the aggressor.

    Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

    Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

    First Hand account from one of the survivors

    "Often they came so close that we could see the pilots in their cockpits and exchanged friendly waves.

    Yet, taking no chances, I ordered the quartermaster to haul up a new flag, with bright and clear colors, and instructed signalmen and lookouts to assure that the flag never wrapped around the lines or mast making it difficult to see even for a few seconds."

    So they could see the American flag perfectly, the pilots even knew that it was American, plus it was in international waters.

    All crew members and many Western observers allege that the attack was made deliberately, and reject all these Israeli reports as incomplete.

    You're saying that you trust the Israeli governments story over what YOUR OWN American sailors say?

    Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

    Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

    Even their own pilots claim that it was deliberate.

    http://www.desert-voice.net/israeli_attrocities.htm
    Is just a small account at that site. With some other stuff.
    Even after they attack one of YOUR ships and deny it, you still love them, and are 100% for their evil acts against the Palestinians?. What are you?, because a person like that, can not be human.

    And here is some more I just found.
    The Israeli jets had been circling the ship repeatedly for a long time. I think they would have realised it was American, after all, it was clearly marked...

    "Often they came so close that we could see the pilots in their cockpits and exchanged friendly waves.

    Yet, taking no chances, I ordered the quartermaster to haul up a new flag, with bright and clear colors, and instructed signalmen and lookouts to assure that the flag never wrapped around the lines or mast making it difficult to see even for a few seconds."

    So they could see the American flag perfectly, the pilots even knew that it was American, plus it was in international waters.

    All crew members and many Western observers allege that the attack was made deliberately, and reject all these Israeli reports as incomplete.

    You're saying that you trust the Israeli governments story over what YOUR OWN American sailors say?

    Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

    Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

    Even their own pilots claim that it was deliberate.

    However the Israelis claim that they wrongly identified the USS Liberty as the Egyptian vessel "El Quseir," which is a horse carrier one-fourth the size of the Liberty with an entirely different appearance.



    Quote:
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    And you still didn't told me what was military interest to attack a friendly ship?
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    Ignoring the incredibly bad childlike grammar...Various theories are presented at times as to why they claim that Israel carried out this action; one theory was that Israel was trying to get the U.S. involved in the conflict on Israel's side, by convincing the U.S. that Egypt was the aggressor.

    Thats one theory, you can probably find many more on the net, read up on it and try looking at the story from a perspective other than the obviously biased Israeli version.


    "Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighbouring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."
    -- Joseph Weitz, the head of the Zionist Agencys Colonization Department

    "I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. What you don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it."
    -- Ariel Sharon, speaking to Amos Oz, Dec. 17, 1982


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    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html
    http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/
     
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  7. candy Valued Senior Member

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    1,074
    It does not matter what the nationality of the ship was; the strafing of lifeboats is unforgivable.
     
  8. Hardstuff Registered Member

    Messages:
    5

    Exactly, even if it was their enemy, it was... as you said, unforgivable.
     
  9. nightwing darknight Registered Member

    Messages:
    28
    well some egyptian historians claim that the uss liberty had photographed the isralies red handed egyptian POWs
    and other violations of geneava code
    but i have nothing that can be called sustantial proof
     

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