US west coast vents, found spewing methane

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by timojin, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    danshawen likes this.
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    What an odd, random and totally wrong thing to say! It's almost as if you know it is wrong and are baiting someone to respond correcting you...
     
    Seattle likes this.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,539
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. danshawen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,942
    This is a naturally occurring source of methane. Methane is a greenhouse gas. Granted, it doesn't all vent directly into atmosphere without a lot of ocean in between, nor is global warming the exclusive focus of the article, but I seem to recall an earlier article that once suggested such venting might be responsible for the occasional loss of aircraft and lives in and around the Bermuda Triangle. As conspiracy theories fly, this one appears to have more weight of argument than any of the stinky hot air exiting the mouth of one presidential candidate who, for political reasons, happens to deny global warming as much as some of the posters in this forum. At least, it has logic. Methane does occur naturally, even places known to be devoid of life processes.

    Timojin doesn't seem to be saying this as if it were fact about global warming in the OP any more than the link article does. Do you object to New Scientist coverage of it?

    Just because a conclusion is based on anecdotal evidence doesn't make it wrong. It makes it a an observation and a candidate hypothesis until it is tested, just like the idea that smoking causes lung cancer is a conclusion based on anecdotal evidence. Correlation is not causation is logically fine, but observation is also an indispensable part of any science that is not done or paid for by idiots with other concerns to their own agendas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  8. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,664
    I think that somebody will need to learn how much methane is being released on the ocean floor, not only along the US west coast (where I live!) but worldwide, throughout the world's oceans. It might be a huge amount, or a minuscule amount compared to the entire atmosphere.
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Well os not wrong . think about do we produce oxygen or we consume it . Methane is going to increase the greenhouse gases that will increase the temperature of the earth . As we are deforestation the land, there will be less oXygen produced . Now we are increasing in population ( consumers of Oxygen ). there is more oxygen demand, Not only we consume oxygen for our metabolism , but for burning fuel. So we definitively we will decrease Oxygen in the atmosphere. And since oxygen Nitrogen , CO2 and others are part of the atmospheric pressure , the by increasing methane it have to affect the partial pressure of Oxygen.
     
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,539
    Is this effect relevant or significant in any way?
     
  11. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,664
    'Relevant or significant' to what?

    To better understanding the marine geochemistry of the ocean floor? Almost certainly.

    To climate change? Perhaps, depending on the amount of methane being vented worldwide and on what subsequently happens to it.

    To changing the Earth's atmosphere so as to render it incapable of sustaining human life? Probably not, but determining that would again call for some numbers on how big this thing is.
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,539
    Statistically significant as to what was being stated...that the PPO2 would change.
     
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    The same way. is cosmology, or evolution relevant to our present life ?
     
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,539
    I'm talking about statistical relevance to PPO2.
     
  15. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    In the past same question was made for fluorocarbon producing hole in the ozone .
     
    danshawen likes this.
  16. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Oh, I see - it wasn't exactly wrong, it was more gibberish. Got it. Do yourself a favor though and google "partial pressure" and read up on what it is/how it works.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    24,445
    What question? The effect of an ozone hole on the partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere?
     
  18. danshawen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,942
    If an atmosphere is 50% oxygen and 50% nitrogen by volume, ant at 1 atmosphere exerts 14.7 lbs per square inch, and the gram molecular weights of the gasses are comparable, then each produces about half of atmospheric pressure. But a heavier molecule such as methane or carbon dioxide is less buoyant than either oxygen, niitrogen, or even ozone, and so these heavier gasses tend to mostly reside in the lower atmosphere. This does not mean there is no ozone or chlorofluorocarbons in the upper atmosphere, only that there will be less than equal amounts at a given temperature and pressure.

    Does this make it clear, no one here seems to have the slightest clue about what partial pressure does or why it is even important in atmospheric physics? I figured that much out from the OP. But thanks for sharing your expertise.

    No matter where in the atmosphere they mostly reside, greenhouse gasses like methane will act to reduce the albedo (solar energy input vs solar energy output) of an atmosphere that covers the entire planet. Heavily industrialized producers of greenhouse gasses or areas that have pockets of subterranean methane venting from the ocean floor will both cause global warming by this mechanism to be worse.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  19. danshawen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,942
    The first result when you google it sounds about right:

    "At sea level (1 atmosphere of pressure), since air is roughly 21% O2 and 79% N2, the partial pressure of oxygen is .21 atmospheres (21% X 1 atm = .21 atm) and the partial pressure of nitrogen is .79 atmospheres (79% X 1 atm = .79 atm)."
     
  20. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    No they don't.
    I'm pretty sure you don't either.
     
    danshawen likes this.
  21. danshawen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,942
    QUOTE="Russ_Watters, post: 3411474, member: 267352"]No they don't.

    I'm pretty sure you don't either.[/QUOTE]
    You'd be wrong. In the graduate physics laboratory, I needed to measure the partial pressure of freon for a freon-pneumatic harmonic oscillator experiment. The oscillator balanced a jet of freon supporting the oscillating mass against atmospheric pressure. If that isn't exposure enough for you, what's yours, or is it just a determination that no one but you has a clue about the atmospheric science connected with GW?

    That particular experiment, done long before the realization that freon was a contributor to degrading the hole in the ozone layer of the atmosphere, would be banned today, of course. It vented a great deal more freon into the atmosphere for several test setups than 100 junkyards full of leaky old refrigeration equipment. All in the name of science education. Had I known what it was doing, I might have dropped the course. So much for academic research into science laboratory safety.

    Like this guy:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Thomas Midgley probably thought he was doing science and people a lot of good in both cases. That's what GW deniers look like to the rest of science in 2016. Of course, none of this is anything new to science or society, nor are such folks trying to do anyone harm. Tragically, Midgley was killed in an accident involving being strangled in a malfunctioning hospital traction apparatus. As sad at least as Otis the engineer and inventor of the elevator being killed in an elevator accident.

    I'm sure, both were well credentialed for the work they were doing also. That doesn't make them any less Darwin award worthy.

    And if you are a GW denier, you probably also find that you like the warm but spectrally inefficient glow of Thomas Edison's incandescent lamps too, don't you? If only we could reclaim all of the energy we wasted on those damned things, we probably wouldn't be so worried about Global Warming today.

    A little cooler planet Earth would be good. A LOT fewer people inhabiting it would be even better, and I say we start lightening the load with the GW deniers. Who else?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  22. danshawen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,942
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/us-stance-must-change-to-solve-climate-change-crisis-1.1269235

    The above link is just to demonstrate that I'm not the only one who has noticed a certain similarity in the toxic stories of leaded gasoline, chlorofluorocarbons and the ozone layer, and global warming denial. Noticing a scientific solution to a problem in industry or medicine rarely happens without unforeseen consequences or side effects. Avoiding those before they become worse and/or irreversible is even better science. Burning more fossil fuels to more heavily industrialize and economically develop a global marketplace has consequences just like anything else we choose to do. Denial that it will have an effect on the planet reveals a Darwin award-winning type of mentality worthy of the likes of Donald Trump or his supporters.

    Sure, casino owners need to be paranoid enough to suspect any gambler trying to game their system, but do we really want or need a government that is run by someone with that kind of attitude or conspiracy theory against the populace it is supposed to serve? How do you figure this will be a win-win situation for anyone but maybe Trump himself?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,624
    Methane has a molecular weight of 16, exactly half that of oxygen and only slightly over half that of nitrogen (28). So it is basically half as dense as air and will tend to rise. You are speaking ex ano again, Dan.
     
    danshawen likes this.

Share This Page