US Marines urinate on dead Taliban

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Captain Kremmen, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    6,045
    eerr yeah - no shit sherlock

    the behaviour of the marines is to be expected...

    I actually dont know why we are having a debate on it.. Shite like this has been going on for ages, probably from the first fight ever had in the whole of time and space....
    its only now the wider public as in non combatant see these things because of digial technology and the internet

    lets not waste our time debating this nonsense....
     
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  3. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    Not going to try and top that, you said it perfectly.
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It's not about the difference it makes to the dead guys. It's the difference it makes to all the people who hear about it, see the footage etc.

    It's a sign of disrespect to the person buried there, to his relatives, and to his people in general.

    When you disrespect somebody, especially in such a blatant way, you will often find that the person concerned (and his friends and relatives and associates) will thereafter relate to you (and maybe also your friends and relatives and associates) differently than before your act.

    In short, it makes rather a large difference to people who engage in normal human relations.

    Hope this helps!
     
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  7. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    War is not a civil affair.

    Celebrating one's victory by pissing on your enemy who has been trying to kill you is pretty mild actually, in comparison to other forms of celebration.

    I guess next you'll tell the military to not refer to their enemy with derogatory names or refer to them with swear words as that's degrading.

     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  8. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    1,620
    Dead or not, their memories should not be desecrated. Whatever happen to a worthy opponent in battle and respect for the enemy and other niceties?
    And things like this and Abu graib make us no better than them - just a different kind of violence, for different ideas, but morally no better.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    36,484
    adoucette:

    You think its ok to piss on the bodies of the people you have killed then?
     
  10. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    I think that a soldier that pisses on someone who he has killed in battle is a perfectly understandable reaction to the stress and exhilaration of actual combat and anyone who hasn't been in a similar situation can't appreciate or understand the feelings involved.

    Doesn't seem to prevent them pontificating about it though or even bringing up morals as if morals have anything to do with the dead.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    24,062
    Which begs the question.. 'Why do the "civilised people" keep going to war?

    So you think pissing on the dead bodies and filming themselves doing it and having a joke while doing it is acceptable behaviour?

    You are happy to have these men represent you and your country?

    The military has a habit of dehumanising the enemy and making them out to not be human beings.

    But when your own soldiers are captured and beheaded because they are the enemy and shown in the media, your civilised society is quick to claim the killers as being savages. But your soldiers kill the enemy and piss on their corpses, you come out and say 'well it's a part of celebration'.

    Did you say the same thing when the bodies of American servicemen were paraded around Mogadishu and then strung up like dead animals while their captors and killers "celebrated"? Yes? Did you say 'awww, they are relieving stress after a tense battle'? You of course apply this standard to the other side as well, yes?
     
  12. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    So then I presume you'd have no problem with Afghanis or Iraqis or anyone else pissing on and mangling American corpses in war?
     
  13. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Because we have to.
    If you don't think we have to be at war then of course you are going to be against all parts of the war, even the original killing.
    If that's the case then the pissing on the corpse is hardly worth mentioning.

    I think it is understandable behavior of men in a combat situation.

    Assuming they treat actual prisoners as per the GC and they stick to the rules of engagement, then Yes.

    And you mix two entirely different issues, the treatment of LIVING prisoners, particularly executing them, is not anywhere near the same thing as pissing on a corpse.

    Yes I do.

    War is hell.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  14. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    No.
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    6,384
    What makes it not ok to do it to US soldiers? Or are you saying it's ok?
     
  16. Bells Staff Member

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    24,062
    When it gets to a point where you cannot distinguish the enemy's actions than those of the 'good guy's', it's a problem.

    No, it's not.

    Showing that level of disregard and disrespect for a fellow human being, even though he is the enemy and was trying to kill you says a lot about the "civilised" culture they stem from.

    Well you aren't the only one who loves them and is proud of them.

    My, isn't she "civilised"?

    Pamela Geller, who has been referred to as the "queen of the Muslim bashers," is not doing anything to shed that title.

    Geller, the executive director of the American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI) and Stop Islamization of America (SIOA), said she's enamored with the Marines seen in a recent video that allegedly shows them urinating on corpses of Taliban soldiers.

    "I love these Marines," she wrote on her blog, Atlas Shrugs. "Perhaps this is the infidel interpretation of the Islamic ritual of washing and preparing the body for burial."


    No, Staff Sgt. William David Cleveland was very much dead when he was dragged through the street by the "celebrating" Somalis.

    So the fact that he was dead makes it acceptable and understandable to drag his corpse through the streets as it is acceptable and understandable for US soldiers to piss on the corpse of a dead enemy? Because it's all a celebration, right?

    Then I don't think you can claim they attacked a 'civilised society'. Because any society that deems the actions of those soldiers or that of say, in Mogadishu, acceptable and understandable cannot be civilised.
     
  17. p-brane Registered Senior Member

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    289
    This thread is ridiculous. Once again you people have taken the exception and treated it as if it were the rule. Using an aberration to indict everyone is nothing more than baiting. So let`s discuss a rule. For example, the behaviour of the taliban which - as a rule - is positively medieval - as a rule.
     
  18. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Actually not to difficult.
    The Taliban supported Al Qaeda and wants to reinstate fundamentalist Islamic rule in Afghanistan.

    So yeah you can tell the difference when they are alive.

    So you've been in combat then?
    When and where?

    Actually when dead they aren't a fellow human being.
    You do seem to miss this point.


    BS
    This is what I was responding to:
    And you continue to mix up treatment of the living with pissing on the dead.

    Sure they can because it's how you treat the LIVING that detemines if you are civilized.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  19. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I suspect many (most?) don't mind being described as "fundamentalist"--I mean, born again Christians are kinda fundamentalists, right?--but they probably don't appreciate the "jihad" analogy.

    Otherwise, agreed.

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  20. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I don't want to be killed, but I want my enemies to die, is that also hypocrisy?
     
  21. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    Look, no matter how bad war is or how necessary it may be, regardless of how "objectively right" we are and how clearly the other side is the bad one, we, as a sensible, successful, dominant species cannot do such things to each other. How is pissing on a enemy any different that pissing on the chessboard after defeating him? Shouldn't they stick to a professional, ration conduct? - get a plan, see the enemy and put a bullet in him, respectfully dispose of the body and wrap up the bloody war!

    I think its this barbaric instinct that has been in us for, like, 99% of our species' time on earth, I guess a few dozen centuries of civilization dont make us much better, eh?
     
  22. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575

    there are lots of state laws that prohibit desecration of the dead. it is usually felonious. one wonders what notions of civility these lawmakers were laboring under when the laws were enacted. ones obviously very different from yours, eh?

    /smirk

    The deputy commander of US forces in Afghanistan, lieutenant general Curtis Scaparrotti, said in a message to troops on Friday that "defiling, desecrating, mocking, photographing or filming for personal use insurgent dead constitutes a grave breach" of laws governing armed conflict. He said it also violates "basic standards of human decency, and can cause serious damage to relations with the Afghan government".

    The US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, said she believed the men may be guilty of a war crime.

    The nature of the charges are unclear although desecrating bodies is a crime under US military law and the Geneva conventions​


    can anyone cite the specific military laws and geneva conventions?
    i see this....
    Art 34. Remains of deceased

    1. The remains of persons who have died for reasons related to occupation or in detention resulting from occupation or hostilities and those or persons not nationals of the country in which they have died as a result of hostilities shall be respected, and the gravesites of all such persons shall be respected, maintained and marked as provided for in Article 130 of the Fourth Convention, where their remains or gravesites would not receive more favourable consideration under the Conventions and this Protocol.

    Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.

    i doubt pissing passes off as an act of respect
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  23. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    5,068
    Hey, these guys are not more of a "Marine" than I am! They are trained, but whos to say life hasn't trained me (it hasn't), moral of the story is get them out of there, they are disrespectful these two, and don't honor their country by committing a act like this.
     

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