US Marines urinate on dead Taliban

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Captain Kremmen, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    America was about as responsible for creating the Taliban as the Czar of Russia was for creating Soviet East Germany.
     
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  3. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    i REALLY dont know why media made this such a HUGE deal
     
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  5. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Taking off my "liberal hat" and putting on one I borrowed from Machiavelli, I say the following is DUMB - will get more than a dozen Americans killed in the outrage it is sure to cause:

    "... The U.S. soldier who allegedly shot and killed at least 16 Afghan civilians has been flown out of the country, according to a U.S. official. ..."
    From: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-afghans-said-to-be-flown-out-of-country.html

    Billy T comment: Yes he mentally snapped, but, that does not hide fact he systematically went house to house, brutally killing those he found inside, hacking limbs off chidren, probably while their soon to be killed mothers watched, etc. Houses are full of blood and the Afghans know this.

    Bringing him to safety of US mental institution, is the humane thing to do, but quite stupid. The "Prince" would have wisely turned him over to the crowd to let them pull his finger nails out one-by-one, etc. and saved many American lives. The US should have turned him over to Afghan justice system (with advice to let the wheels of justice grind slowly).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
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  7. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I'm sorry, are we crying over what happens to a dead Taliban soldier? The guys who sanction rape and murder? Seriously?

    It's war, and they are the enemy. By the way, how do you think they died to begin with? Oh, so shooting them in the face is fine, but peeing on their corpses isn't?

    And to those saying "Imagine if it was an American soldier being desecrated," we don't need to imagine it, because it's happened plenty. Again, it's war, and this kind of thing happens.
     
  8. Balerion Banned Banned

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    How would it have saved lives? You honestly think those people would have been satisfied by that? They have fundamentalist mullahs egging them into a frenzy, there's no reason involved. They've already said they won't accept that it was just one man responsible, so they've put us in a position where we can't win. Every move we make is going to be wrong in their eyes.
     
  9. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    No, I never said turning him over to a crowd would "satisfy" them - only that Bringing him out of Afghan in the cover of night will greatly increase the outrage. - Result in more Americans dying than if he had been turned over to the Afghan justice system.

    Some of the houses he killed in are badly soiled with blood. The closest the US has yet come to noting that this is:

    "... The Obama administration insisted Monday that the civilian killings, while tragic and horrific, would not change the goals or timing of the U.S. strategy to defeat al Qaeda in Afghanistan and turn over security responsibility to Afghan forces. ..." From: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/12/us/afghanistan-shooting-impact/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Many generations from now Afghans will still tell their children how the US protected the worst monster to ever be in Afghanistan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
  10. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I don't see how you reach this conclusion. The anti-American religious authorities fueling this outrage aren't going to relent if we handle it another way, they'll just spin the story to suit their agenda.

    Well, first of all, if you think this guy is the worst monster to "be in Afghanistan" you seriously need to educate yourself on the history of the Taliban. I mean, we're all adults here, so drop the hyperbole.

    Secondly, what did you want the White House to say? Did you want them to write a poem about the blood-streaked walls?
     
  11. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Caption was: “Afghan protesters shout anti-US slogans during a demonstration in Jalalabad, capital of Nangarhar province on Tuesday.”

    Here is condensed quote of the text:

    “…Taliban militants opened fire Tuesday on a delegation of senior Afghan officials - including two of President Hamid Karzai's brothers - visiting villages in southern Afghanistan where a US soldier is suspected of killing 16 civilians. …
    Before the attack on the delegation, the Taliban vowed to kill and behead those responsible for the civilian deaths in the two villages in Panjwai district, considered the birthplace of the militant group. Nine of the 16 killed were children, and three were women, according to President Karzai.

    Villagers have described him stalking from house to house in the middle of the night, opening fire on sleeping families and then burning some of the dead bodies. Today, the Kandahar governor was trying to explain to the villagers that he was only one soldier, that he was not a sane person and that he was sick," said Abdul Rahim Ayubi, a Kandahar lawmaker who was part of the delegation.

    "But the people were just shouting and they were very angry. They didn't listen to the governor. They accused him of defending the Americans instead of defending the Kandahari people," Ayubi said.

    From: http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2012-03/14/content_14827242.htm
    PS, if you only read US press, and only watch US´s TV you get a “favorable to US filtered” version of the news.
     
  12. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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  13. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I'm not seeing the difference, Billiam, nor how this differs from what I've already said. And you didn't address my points.
     
  14. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Again you are misquoting me - asserting I think something I do not, etc. I agree he is far from the "worst monster to visit Afghanistan" HOWEVER, I am a realist and am quite confident that generations from now, that is how Afghans will describe him to their children.

    US has earned the long lasting haltered of nearly half the world, in large measure due to the hypocrisy between what it says and what it does. For example the US supports the World Court, international justice, etc. but just not if applied to Americans.

    Older people* in Brazil hate America as the CIA destroyed their democratic government (not just Brazil, but EVERY democratic government was destroyed by the CIA & US´s concern that South America was turning to Communism) -The original 9/11 took place in 1973 in Chile - The CIA´s goons killed the elected president because he was openly communistic. In the decade plus that followed with all of South America under CIA supported dictatorships at least 50,000 students and others working to try to restore democracy were killed - about 17 times more deaths than in the later 9/11! ("9/11" in South America refers to what happened in Chile in 1973 - Probably why Al Quada, choose that date -i.e. to be seen / understood as a "pay back" for that US evil.)

    One old man who hangs out near my Apartment complex every day (He is real-estate agent, trying to be friendly with all the several hundred owners) knows I am an American and harangues me about the evils of the USA. I pretend my Portuguese is poorer than it is and if replying give some non -secular comment like "Yes, the stocks are down today." to escape.

    When Britain ruled the world, they did so with much less hypocrisy - the uneducated non-whites were the "white man’s burden" but helping them had to break even economically.

    * My wife´s simple protest is that she will not drink Coke - not even if it is free at parties, and I dare not bring it into the house.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
  15. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes for those who do read the NYTimes or the Washington Post, and a few others, you can learn the truth - but when it goes into living rooms via TV, it is noticably filtered to keep the "Americans are the good guys" image in tact. My CNN is not the same as you see in the USA.
     
  16. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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  17. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    If that's the case it should be EASY to show a US version of a story vs a different version of the story on your CNN that is less favorable to the US.

    Bet you will make up some sorry excuse for why you can't though.
     
  18. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    That is in exact agreement with what I said. here from your link:

    "In 2007 a slight majority (54%) had a negative view of the United States and only close to three in ten (28%) had a positive view; America was among the countries with the lowest ratings. Views began to rise in 2008, with positive views rising to 32% on average, and now the USA is in a middle tier position, ranking substantially higher than China.

    A country that showed even greater improvement this year was Brazil. Positive views of Brazil's influence jumped from 40 to 49 per cent on average over the previous year, with negative views dropping to just 20 per cent. ..."

    I.e. I said the OLD, in South America, who lived under the CIA´s dictatorships and had many friends jailed, some tortured and one or two "disappeared" are dying out so the positive view of the US is growing, or at least was prior to the late 2008 economic crash. Now Brazilians who were in the US are returning to Brazil. The current president of Brazil was jailed and tortured when the CIA´s military ruled Brazil, as was the prior president of Chile, also a woman, whose father died under torture in jail in Chile.

    These things are well known in South America but almost nerver spoken of or reported in the US as they are so inconsistent with the "Americans are the good guys" image most of the press and all of the US TV promotes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
  19. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Why quote 2007 when they have 2011 data Billy?

    Of the countries surveyed, 18 hold predominantly positive views of the US, seven hold negative views and two are divided. On average , 49 per cent of people have positive views of US influence in the world--up four points from 2010--and 31 per cent hold negative views.

    More to the point, "holding negative views" is certainly NOT the same as saying they have LONG LASTING HATRED for us Billy.
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    As I told you twice now, there is a strong age effect. 1973´s was 39 years ago. More than 2/3 of South Americans were either not yet born or just learneing to walk. I said the "older south Americans" still hate the USA. Your link supports that 100%.
     
  21. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I didn't misquote you. If you meant something other than that he was in fact the worst monster to visit (now it's "visit," before it was "be in". Seems you're the one having trouble with misquotations) then you should have been more clear.

    But okay, supposing you did mean it was just how the people would portray him, I don't see how it makes you a realist to jump to that conclusion. I think this is more about your desire to make any crime or act perpetuated by the US as the most egregious possible.

    Well, "haltred" is a strong word. "Hatred" is an even stronger one, but neither is accurate, at least not in "nearly half the world."

    Or, more likely, it was a coincidence. Of course, every country has a past. Every country with the ability to influence beyond its own borders has done something bad to another country or people. and the US is no different than anyone else in that respect.

    So then you see our 9/11 as the US getting what it deserves?

    Yes, I'm sure that one old man speaks for the entire dwindling generation.

    You've just lost all credibility. Not that you had much to begin with, but this comment ends it.
     
  22. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    No Billy, you didn't just say it was older South Americans:

    ,

    but it's clear it's not long lasting, as the polls show they have been changing their opinion and of course the opinion that they are "holding negative views" is certainly NOT the same as saying they have HATRED for us either.

    As to your "older qualification", you only qualified it for Older Brazilians, but gave no evidence to support that assertion either.
     
  23. Chipz Banned Banned

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    Aren't these facts the problems of the individuals who hold them? Hating America for policies 99% of people have no say in? Hating China despite large swaths of the population are essentially slaves? If the average individual there wants to feel this way, that's there right. But you shouldn't be an apologetic, I'm certainly not. Shouldn't they be more concerned with their lack of useful contribution to the world? They provide us drugs, terrorist training zones, lawless lands, and destruction of their own globally relevant resources.
     

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