US Flag Shirts "incendiary" on 5/5 at California School

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by madanthonywayne, May 6, 2010.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Five boys at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, California were threatened with suspension for wearing US Flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo. They were told that if they returned to class without turning the shirts inside out they'd be suspended, so the boys choose to go home for the day.

    On any other day at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Daniel Galli and his four friends would not even be noticed for wearing T-shirts with the American flag. But Cinco de Mayo is not any typical day especially on a campus with a large Mexican American student population.

    Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the vice principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principal's office.

    "They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

    The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus.
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  3. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    The administrators might have been right...
     
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  5. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    Morgan Hill is pretty hoity toity .. you know that right??
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    The obvious question

    And the moral, ethical, or judicial proposition at hand?
     
  8. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    honestly who the fuck cares? mexicans need to get there head out of there ass. if on the 4th of july they ware all the red white and green they want to school i really wouldnt give a fuck. that being said THEY live in the UNITED STATES NOW. so if they get offended by THERE COUNTRIES COLORS then THEY need to go back to MEXICO and fuckoff just my 2 cents have a nice day

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    comments not aimed at anyone in particular.. on on a side note mexicans get your heads out of your asses
     
  9. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    If you really knew the area, you would understand that it was probably a bunch of little snot nosed rich kids trying to start some shit.. and looks like they did.

    Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."

    yeah right

    Remember these are HIGH SCHOOL kids..geez
     
  10. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    point is why do the mexican kids care? I personaly dont give 2 shits if they where a mexican flag on the 4th of july.. after all they need to realize that this isnt mexico and they dont get pissed if we celibrate wtih them so why cant we celibrate with them wearing the red white and blue? this is america and they do live here now
     
  11. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    Well sifreak are you still in high school?

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    Yeah I could really give a hoot too... yes celebrating in arms would be cool

    There is a certain amount of rub your face in it ..both side acting well like kids

    The school wanted to disarm it....now it's just more fuel for the hate fire going on.

    to sum it all up

    OBAMA DID IT

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  12. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Because this was a political statement aimed at intimidating them - the message is that they aren't real Americans and so aren't welcome in this country. This despite them being, you know, citizens.

    If you think high school kids in Morgan Hill regularly show up to school in American flag t-shirts and bandanas, I have a bridge to sell you.

    And by the way, you should be aware that Morgan Hill is a white flight ex-urb for all the Santa Clara county hicks that don't want to live amongst the Asians that dominate the rest of Silicon Valley.

    Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of Mexican-American culture and heritage. It is not a Mexican holiday in the way that Fourth of July is an American holiday. To make a point of denigrating the identities of one's fellow students on such a holiday is offensive.

    Imagine if someone showed up to a St. Patrick's Day celebration wearing a bunch of Union Jack paraphernelia - same issue.
     
  13. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    haha no not in hischool maybe 8 years ago ^_^

    but understood now that this happend tho when the 4th rolles around the american kids are gonna blow there top if the see anything that remotly resembles red white and green.. if the school does nothing about thoes studens descrimination charges may be brought up
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    The obvious question is whether it is proper that the wearing of the symbol of our own nation should be banned at a public school. Furthermore, should a public school support the idea that a minority group might be offended by the symbol of the very nation they have chosen to live in?

    If the wearing of the US flag results in violence, clearly it is the individuals who find the sight of a US flag so provocative that they are incited to violence that are at fault.
     
  15. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    despite what thoes us prics say if your born in the us no matter your race color or religion your an american.. hell on of them was even a mexican/american mutt.. most people in the world now are mutts to be honest haha. but that shouldnt intimidate them wearing the colors of the country they now live in should not be intimidating at all.. now this is going to sound racist but its not and jsut to make a point.. if a middle eastern person wtih a long bear wears whatever u call that head wrap thing on the 4th of july or 9.11 that could be intimidating after what happend

    haha i know highschoolers will be children

    news to me havent been in cali for that long yet but still doesnt give the school rights to do that hell i wore a usa shirt to work yesterday but i wasnt aressted

    that somewhat proves my point mexican-american so why cant they or americans wear redwhite and blue they can wear green red and white and everyone get shithammered together.. its not offensive or shouldnt be at all just because its a mexican holiday schools ban our countries colors? thats fucked up on so many levels

    Imagine if someone showed up to a St. Patrick's Day celebration wearing a bunch of Union Jack paraphernelia - same issue. [/QUOTE]

    no idea what union jack is so would have no idea.. same issue but its different in the sence the kids were wearing there countries colors you got to admit its fucked up that us citizens got kicked out of school for wearing us flag colors no matter what the occasion.. the school board? or whatever that school is ina group of schools is called.. they didnt agree at all with that principles actions.. and the fact that the vice president was mexican could raise more issues.. he could lose his job over this
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    This and that

    It is, to the one, as I expected. To the other, though, I think the situation isn't so simple. In the last several years, schools have found fault with t-shirts acknowledging or implying homosexuality, declaring pacifism, supporting the U.S. Constitution, and for various other reasons. The choice to brandish the U.S. flag as a specific and agitating counterpoint to Cinco de Mayo is a question that becomes valid in this context.

    All things being equal, I would agree with you. But all things cannot be said to be equal.

    For instance, one might question the exploitation of the U.S. flag as a political statement against cultural diversity in America, which conduct I would not find admirable. No matter what else you or I might think of this episode, it is difficult to protest that this was not a predictable outcome. The irony, then, that the U.S. flag has been deemed incendiary, derives from the equal application of standards that have been previously invoked against equality, diversity, and free expression.

    • • •​

    That question probably won't come up; most American schools are not in session on July 4. And any school year pushed past the usual June end by labor action, weather disruption, or other such delays, won't be holding classes on the Fourth.
     
  17. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    Using that logic, one could argue that the Cinco De Mayo party was a politically-motivated attempt to intimidate non-Mexicans.

    Do you think the school kids in Morgan Hill regularly have Cinco De Mayo parties at their school? One group of students was allowed to have a special day to celebrate the nation with which they apparently identify, so another group of students decided to show some respect for the nation with which they identify. I see no problem here.

    If the school was having some big event for Saint Patrick's Day, I'd have no problem with students who weren't of Irish descent wearing something that acknowledges their ethnic background.

    Which has nothing to do with the students involved in the incident.

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  18. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    :bravo: I don't care if people are proud of their heritage, I am, but it's America. You should be proud of this country just as much as your ethnic background.
     
  19. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    I think the underlying issue at work here is that schools can and usually will ban virtually anything that, in their judgment, is likely to lead to disruptions or fights. This includes free expression, without regard to the actual content of the expression - the mere fact that it's likely to be disruptive is enough for them.
     
  20. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    But isn't that unconstitutional? In one Supreme Court case, a bunch of kids were warned that if they wore black wristbands (meant to signify protest against the Vietnam war) they would be expelled. Thy wore the bands, they got expelled, and they took it to court. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the kids, because their freedom of expression was violated.
     
  21. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    What's the difference between wearing the flag on a shirt and (say) hanging one in the auditorium?
     
  22. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    And the obvious answer is that indeed it should, when it is employed in such a way as to insult and offend citizens of certain ethnic backgrounds.

    When said symbol is being employed offensively, the obvious answer is yes.

    You should be proud that a public school is refusing to allow sacred national symbols to be appropriated as tokens of racial animus against American citizens. They are defending America from destructive bigots.

    That's not clear at all. This isn't some case of thugs attacking some random person who just happened to be wearing something with a flag on it.

    This is an instance of the flag being employed as a symbol of ethnic animosity, to intimidate minorities - and those who would so abuse the symbols of our republic (which stands for freedom, justice and equality for all) are liable for the problems that incurs.

    Basically, the implication that anyone displaying an American flag is necessarily trying to communicate only benign, admirable messages of national pride and unity is unsound. The import of any symbol depends heavily on how and where it is employed, and these kids employed the American flag for purposes of ethnic division and intimidation. They should be ashamed of this insult to our nation, and you should be ashamed for pretending that they're admirable patriots.
     
  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed. And so we should hold people who imply otherwise - and particularly those who employ national symbols such as the flag in that effort - in contempt.

    It's a sad fact that many of the most virulent anti-Mexican bigots are themselves the descendents of Hispanic immigrants in the not-so-distant past. One of our interlocutrs here falls into that category, by the way.

    Indeed, the symbols of our nation should reflect only the proud principles that it's supposed to, and not be appropriated for purposes of ethnic division and intimidation that are counter to said principles. And that is why we need to impede those who would do so, like the pricks in this occurence.

    Just because that's what the flag should stand for doesn't mean that's the message being communicated every time someone employs the flag for political communication.

    Schools have broad latitude in prohibiting conduct likely to lead to disruption and safety issues. That includes overt displays of racism aimed at intimidating minority students, especially on a holiday dedicated to celebrating their heritage and contributions to American culture.

    That's not the situation, and the fact that wearing an American flag shouldn't be offensive doesn't mean that these kids didn't find a way to make it so.

    It's the British Flag.

    They got in trouble for making an offensive political statement designed to harm relations between white and Mexican Americans. That they used the flag as a major part of that statement makes it more offensive, not less.
     

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