United States: What's the problem?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xmo1, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Yep, and I never paid back a penny of those.
     
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  3. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    You can go first 2 years to a city college, live at home and buy used books . have a partime job take some curses at night . I have done as I come here , than for my son's I helped.
     
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  5. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    My son did not join the Navy for school , he wanted to go away, so he joined the navy for six years : than matured. He did not have any intention of going to college .
    So please stop projecting your personality
    Stop tilting this country to a welfare state and stop crying , work your existence , the society does not owe you anything.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Most people can't, or the sacrifice is too great.

    They can't live at home, they can't afford the used books, they can't pay for city college, without significant loans. They can't get a part time (day!) job that pays enough extra for night courses, the night courses don't well support further education, the cost is too big and the opportunity too small.

    So the entire project takes too many years to pay off, and may never pay off - many who undertake it will be in their thirties before they can marry, just beginning their careers and deeply in debt, and won't know until then whether any of it can pay off. That risk is a cost, on top of all the work, on top of the money, on top of the debt.

    Sure, some can and will do it. Some will volunteer to take on those burdens, pay those costs, take that risk. But many can't or won't, and many will try and fail. And so everybody is worse off; the entire country suffers the effects of an uneducated population, finds itself returning to a state of society and civilization in which only the children of the rich are routinely well-educated.

    That used to be the common condition, after all. That's the "natural" state of affairs.
    You posted it, directly in response, as an example of how to afford college these days. That was your mean little fucked up personality talking, not other people's.
    Part of what I owe to my society is a good effort toward trying to keep you and your kind from wrecking it. I owe that to the people who built my country and provided all the benefits of citizenship in it, benefits you and your kind are going to destroy for the generations to come if the rest of us can't prevent you from doing that.
     
  8. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    I did go to a local college. I couldn't buy used books because they required you to have a code for the online labs that was one use only. I did live at home.

    Want to try again?
     
  9. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    My daughter was able to attend college between loans taken out by herself and my wife and myself. She graduated 7 years ago and now has her own office at a law firm as a Registered Agent Specialist. A typical success story right? But here's the thing, its not "typical" at all. We happen to live in a city with a "commuter college"; one that she was able to get to and from by mass transit so she was able to live at home while attending college without even the extra costs of having a car (not an option for many). I was able to make our loan payments by working an extra day a week of overtime(without which, we would have not been able to take on the extra loan payments, and not everyone has the opportunity to bring in the extra income I had) .

    When she moved out a couple of years after graduation, she only had been able to get a part-time job at a bookstore, so shared an apartment with friends. Even then, she had to rely on the SNAP program to make ends meet. After one of her friends had gotten hired by the law firm as a file clerk, she later recommended my daughter when another file clerk job opened up. From there she worked her way up.

    And while she earned her present position in the firm once originally hired, I am also very aware that a lot of fortuitous circumstances led up to that point. I don't fool myself that just because my daughter successively navigated the minefield, that this would be the case for the majority of others.
     
  10. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Aye, I had the pleasure of dealing with an alcoholic father that managed to drink my parents into over 80 grand in credit card debt before my mother finally divorced him. Good on you by taking on the extra workload (and you are right - it was a fortuitous opportunity!)

    My wife and I applied for food stamps at one point when things got tough... we were told we "didn't qualify" because we were too far above the poverty line (yet even with a pair of old beater cars (so no car payment), we were struggling to keep the lights on, a roof over our head, and make our student loan payments. More than a few skipped meals, and a bit of luck, and things did eventually turn around.

    The problem is, you are exactly right - a lot of people don't have those sorts of opportunities... and far too frequently, the ones that do don't see them as anything special, and expect everyone to have them and thus go "Well, you should pull yourselves up by your bootstraps you lazy avocado toast eating slackers!" and think that's some magic cure-all

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  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Just an added note: in the seven years since, or ten + since the launch, things have become significantly worse.
     
  12. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    Something I meant to mention and forgot to add.
     
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    My son's girlfriend graduated as a teacher , her mother an addict and her father a bum. At the present she is at $ 30000.00 in debt she is working she paid and is paying for her school , she was paying rent and supporting herself, She graduated a few years ago , paying for her car. So I take her as a current example.

    What do you for this country ? Some will work for the others? Rise wages, so the industry will move to Asia or to South America ?
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Of what? Somebody who got in and graduated before the latest round of cost hikes, and was lucky enough to get a decent job fairly quickly? Somebody who has been forced to postpone marriage and family until near middle age? Somebody who is still paying off even a relatively small student loan debt "a few years" after graduation? Somebody who a young person contemplating taking on twice her debt with no guarantee of half her good fortune in employment can look at as an example of the payoff, the upside, of the risk and work they are taking on?
     
  15. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    It's easy to be brainwashed as a child, and used as a resource. So let's address another problem: The 4P. The Piss Poor Parenting Problem. Young people should be guided and directed, nourished and protected to become the best they can be. The problems of our world are mostly caused by The 4P, and they can be remedied by creating and using The Solution. Then the world gets better. We can do that. Another problem, light pollution. Directed lighting please. Should be a law that the stars (the Universe), star light, should not be obstructed. People should be able to wonder in the heavens.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    a good company. it can be done and still turn a profit. if those who run corporations say they can't, it's usually because of greed of capitalism devoid of ethics and fairness, not literally that it can't be done. every human resource management problem or obstacle has to do with human character flaws, than actually anything tangible.



    compare it to this conservative twat and his awful pizza chain which became successful and therefore a testament to the lack of good taste of the general public. this pizza, especially the sauce has the odor of warm vomit, as if someone half-digested tomato sauce and threw it back up on the pizza. the ingredients weren't better and neither was the pizza, it was all hype. if you pay attention to the commercial, you can tell this no real imagination turd is just lying using hype.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    The way as I see the 4P will get worse we are going step from one generation to next. Because the society is becoming less responsible. The younger generation feels as they are entitle to have what they want , In my time of from where I come you are entitled to nothing if you don't do work. So as they, new generation, learn to appreciate the earning due to work and save your money , they are going to be a parasite to the society.
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    if this is true, why is it that i knew people born in the 40's and 50's who feel they were entitled just the same? are you saying that parasites on a society are something new? in reality, they have always existed, haven't they?

    why did i grow up around people, who represented the majority (not fringe or ostracized), who believed they had a right to a certain lifestyle, money, power etc just by taking it or using any corrupt means?

    besides those born with a silver spoon in their mouth who may have an inheritance, who doesn't know they have to work for a living? do you know anyone who doesn't realize this?

    also, prior generations who were irresponsible by being irresponsible toward the next generation are the ones who secretly or covertly engender the same for the next generation. why would society blame the symptoms without ever looking at the cause? why would they keep ignoring or being oblivious to pillars of society that act the part while secretly having amoral standards they use against others, while their victims have to take the blame?

    it is not my fault my so-called caretakers who were christian, family oriented people in public/society undermined my education or abusive as well as taking out their amoral, animalistic, base urges out on me. the truth is the problem people are often just the embodiment of someone else's values or lack of them. if your theory is true, why was i taught these terribly irresponsible values by people born several generations ago? why was i taught to be a whore? why was i taught to believe i didn't deserve to reach higher or else i was not humble? why was i taught to be subservient and not fight for myself or my rights?

    why was i taught by my stepfather who was a southern baptist minister that molestation and rape at 12 years old is okay but not to his own daughter? why was i used like cinderella in the house while his wife didn't even work, so what was she doing all day? why did i have to do all the housework? why was i barely provided for, never had a birthday party or gift except once, never bought anything except at a yard sale. they didn't have an excuse because they weren't poor but middle class and had money and bought for themselves. they were born in '46 and '51. that's not anywhere near this generation.

    i couldn't even get a notebook for a book report and hand to staple my papers together and would get in trouble. the only reason they did anything is if it would come to the attention of others and it could potentially expose them or make them look bad. i couldn't even read a book or have personal time without being yanked away like i had no rights to attend to their needs, wants or just to be used. where did they learn these values they didn't apply to themselves?

    why did this prior generation teach me immorality, degradation, dehumanization and that my education was not important? they wanted a victim, dumbass. this is NATURE. it has nothing to do with a generation but the ugliness of nature itself.

    on top of that, why was i bullied so much by society itself growing up, rubbing salt in the wound? they can tell you are not dressed well, not taken care of well, troubled, depressed etc. because people can smell blood, weakness and especially if someone is unloved, has low self-esteem and/or has little defenses or people in their corner. literally, people can sense these things like animals. and you know what was being attacked? not the bad but the best parts of me left: hope, light, sensitivity, good values etc. of course, because it's an easy opportunity to bring someone down further. this is the filthy ugliness in people's hearts. the very people who are considered acceptable, regular, normal members of society. this is also why you always have a subpar 'qualitative' society always, no matter what technological innovations exist. why there are always problems, people are sad, hurt, miserable, suffering because of others etc. here we are in the 21st century and people are still shooting others in hate or jumping off bridges because they hate life so much, usually because of others. the evils of lifeforms has not changed.

    so when people can really see how evil and ill-willed and un-conscientious, or mean or petty etc society is, motivated to take advantage of or further taunt or dehumanize people as easy targets, why should they care about society at all? the truth is society is lucky people don't turn against society more than they do because society and it's members are full of sins. the only difference is that saying 'between them and god' because it's a gradient, some are worse than others but many are nasty or have done nasty or cruel things to others that have nothing to do with the judicial system, will never be known or accounted for, yet they are damaging, sociopathic and hurtful effects just the same.

    now they didn't teach that to those they care about but people in society WANT a portion of people in society to cater to their dark or disgusting/revoltingly low standards. they want prostitutes and human trafficking, drugs and drug trafficking, strippers, gambling, pedophile rings, alcohol, nightclubs, porn, etc. they want people to be down and out so that they can live in the nice part of society while when they have the urge, to go to the seedy part of town to partake in whatever their base urges desire, at the expense of someone else's destruction.

    the truth is generations seem to have nothing to do with it and if some people don't feel they have to earn anything, either it's because society crippled them or they were raised to believe that from a previous generations's members.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  19. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    What Millennials feel "entitled" to is nothing of the sort - in general, we just want the same opportunities that you "old folks" had growing up.

    It astounds me that some people don't look at the situation (the fact that ours is the first generation to have a LOWER expected standard of living and, in many cases, a LOWER life expectancy) and see a problem. I know I certainly want better for my son, even if all the better I can provide is making sure he never has cause to question if we love him.
     
  20. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    Let's talk small businesses
    Problem: Consumer protection. What happened to that over the last 20 years? It seems to have dissolved into thin air. I don't even know if what I'm eating is safe.
    Problem: GOB networks. Can't start a business in a chosen location, because you aren't part of the network. You can try, but it's not going to happen. Same with some HOA's.
    Problem: Illegal competitive practices happening locally. They show up at banks, chambers of commerce, trade unions, and small business groups. (too small to manage/unable to prosecute)

    There is a cloud of people looking for opportunities to rip a business away from the new business developers hands by whatever method(s) at any time during the business development process. New business developers get more pain from the community than support. The family that owns 6 stores will do nearly anything to keep a person from establishing 1 competitive store. You can say well that's business, but I look at it as a problem.

    Even small successful businesses are Very difficult for owners (inventory, marketing, taxes, consumer complaints, security, and on and on). Small business owners (SBO's) shouldn't need to sacrifice their sanity to maintain and grow a business. Quite the opposite. There should be built in rewards for undertaking the work - provided by the community, the neighborhoods that get serviced, the greater metropolitan area, the state, the federal government, and especially medium and large businesses. Too often SBO's get beaten until they fall dead. That's not right.

    People know how to identify and solve problems. So why the disparity? There must be a correlation between the problems and the resources available to solve them. Most any problem gets worse and more costly with age. So at some point in time that correlation needs to be identified, enabled, implemented, and enforced. How's that going to happen?
     
  21. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I rear your examples and your own story, it is sad, You are a product hippy generation , sadly to say that generation was not very responsible (drugs and free love ).I believe we are responsible to bring up our offsprings properly as the 10 commandments teaches us , but do we want to apply the teaching to ourselves that is an other story . We can teach, preach but if we don't apply to ourselves that is just dry air.
     
  22. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Civil rights, opposing war crimes in Vietnam, opposing nuclear weapons, environmentalism, feminism... In many ways they were more responsible than the previous generation.
     
  23. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    No, no, no! EVERYBODY rode a chopper and wore a cowboy hat! Weren't you paying attention?
     

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