Unfair way of thinking!!!

Discussion in 'History' started by Yazan, Apr 28, 2004.

  1. Yazan the truth is always hidden. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    91
    Hey guys,
    I wonder why whenever a bad action (at least some consider it so) is taken by a Muslim guy, people say A Muslim guy did so and so?
    Why when a Christian does such a bad action, no body mentions his name?. And it is the same with Jews.!!!
    Don’t tell me it’s the religion
    We shouldn’t blame Islam for bad actions taken by some Muslims.
    The word “Islam” means peace
    I always admire Islam more and more when I read its history
    For example: -
    Frankly speaking, who has the most aggressive and revulsion feelings against Muslims?
    I guess Jews.
    But do you know that no body has ever treated Jews better than Muslims?
    at the time of the Islamic empire,When they used to apply Islamic law, Jews were treated so well same as every one else.
    I know it may seem strange, but read the history and you will know
    Jews lived a good life in Spain through all the 800 years of Islamic administration there!!!
    As soon as Muslims were out
    Ferdinand (King of Spain) and his wife Isabella (in 1492) made an ordinance to drive away all the Jews from Spain

    Yazan
     
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  3. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    The main problem here Yazan is that all too often today when "terrorists or militants" strike they profess to do so in the name of allah (just yesterday april 27th an incident in Thailand and one in Syria for example). Not many westerners commit terror in the name of god (abortion opponents one of the notable exceptions in the US). As for the jews some claim it is gods will others say it is simply a matter of political and physical survival of the state of Isreal. Isreal and the jews are in fact taking a beating in the media and public opinion at least here in europe. As to the kind treatment of kafirs under islamic rule if you examine non-muslim as well as muslim history you will find that treatment of kafirs varied with the mood and personal interpretation of islam of the various rulers. It was not always wine and roses (actually never wine

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    )for kafirs under islam despite what islamic history says.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2004
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  5. Thersites Registered Senior Member

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    The problem is, it's a two-way thing. After all, in your own post you ascribe good behaviour to "islam", not the individual rulers concerned. If they behaved well thanks to islam then presumably other muslims were inspired to behave badly for the same reason.
     
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  7. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    4,779
    Yazan:
    Perhaps you'd like to brush up on your history at this point like I have.

    Remember the Nazi trend in issuing badges to the Jews in order to keep them seperate from others on German soil? There was a caliph named al-Mutawakkil that forced the wearing of yellow badges and honey colored robes by both Christians and Jews in his kingdom of Sammarra (Baghdad) in order to identify them as slaves in the marketplace. Houses of worship- church and synagoge- were torn to the ground and replaced with mosques and the teaching of Christians and Jews was prohibitted.

    This the so called Golden Age of the Abbasids.

    The Koran itself singles out the Jew as a bloodsucking dog:

    "They [the Children of Israel] were consigned to humiliation and wretchedness. They brought the wrath of God upon themselves, and this because they used to deny God's signs and kill His Prophets unjustly and because they disobeyed and were transgressors" (Sura 2:61)

    A Muslim boy is taught that the Jew breeds corruption and that he is both the enemy of Allah and his prophets. Have you been taught otherwise?

    In the 8th century we look to Morocco where whole Jewish peoples were wiped out by Idris I, a Muslim ruler. 12th century North Africa had the Almohads either forcing or killing these people into conversion. How about this:

    "The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire."

    Peacuful, huh?

    Did- and maybe you are thinking in terms 'dhimma' or 'writ of protection' that Muslim kings and rulers extended as protection to Chritians and Jews in their land, something like the essoine used in Midevial knighthood for those not able to protect themselves in the lists.

    But it was given in exchange for subordination:

    "One must ask: 'protected against whom?' When this 'stranger' lives in Islamic countries, the answer can only be: against the Muslims themselves"

    - Jacque Elluil, some french "authority" off of this website

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mutawakkil

    But all of this is an unfair way of thinking, yes? Of course!!!
     
  8. caffeine_fubar Dark Dementia is my name... Registered Senior Member

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    287
    I did not read the replies, i just replied on my own, so if this has already been said... sorry

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    .

    I think that since the attacks on the United States by the Al Qaeda Extremists are what started this false stereotype and the thoughts against the Muslims. Everyone seems to think that Muslims are terrorists or some bullcrap like that.

    This REALLY pisses me off. When a Muslim does something bad, I say, "That Ignorant idiot did this..." and its the same with christian, white, black, jew, mormon. Why do people HAVE to include MUSLIM or MORMON?! People who say Muslim or Mormon when referring to a person, in my opinion, are simply stating that they think the person's religion is false and is of no use. The truth is they have NO CLUE what the person's religion is really about.

    My brother is Mormon, and people use the word Mormon when talking about him. Every time i ask them why they are using that word in that way, they tell me that of course every mormon does not beleive in Christ and worships their own god. They also tell me that mormons have multiple wives. These are both completely wrong. Mormons do not multi-marry more than any other insane person does. By saying insane, i am not stating they are stupid for doing it, i am stating that they will be outcasts from the community FOR doing it. They also DO beleive in christ.

    My other friend is Pagan/Wiccan, and many people beleives she is a devil worshipper. MY ASS! Pagan/Wiccan generally do not even beleive in Satan, and think its nonsense. The pentagram? Its a symbol of peace. When its turned upside down, then it becomes a symbol of evil, just as the christian cross does.

    Ok sorry to keep rambling on... yes i think stating someones religion as if to say they are automatically a certain personality just for being that religion is absolute ignorance and stupidity.
    Maybe people who do that just need to be shot...
     
  9. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,779
    Caffeine:
    Disagree- "terrorism" seems something New Age or modern and we only begin to hear of it some time after 1967 or whearabouts, after the Six Days War.
    Ever since then that area has become a struggle between Jew and Arab on account of the new use of 'terrorism' by a PLO in place of conventional warfare.

    Warfare seems atavistic. Terrorism something almost......chique.

    Because its damn funny.
    Why did Gendanken run the Christian over with her Nissan?
    Which makes them perfect prey...oops, people.
     
  10. caffeine_fubar Dark Dementia is my name... Registered Senior Member

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    287
    Ok... Now I understand... I Shall follow your example... *Gets Nissan* lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2004
  11. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    4,779
    No, no, no- I'm beastly bored and need a stimulant so:

    Why did Gendanken run the Christian over with her Nissan?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2004
  12. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    4,779
    Path:
    Bush feels his election was orchestrated by god. His decision on war he's relegated to the intervention of God.
    He feels entitled to re-election, albeit secretly, because of God.

    Carter- throw him in as well.
     
  13. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    Please post for me the policy statements which outline this, show me where he says we are killing disbelievers "for god" or US policy in Iraq is backed by God because god said "insert citation from bible here"and hurry cause if he is I gotta go hide

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    Al Quaida, Jemmaya Islamiah, etc come out with public statements in which they say they are doing Allah's work they exclaim Allahu akbar before carrying out an attack or in celebration of one. Religious belief is central to their operations and policy and they say so. Religion may have a personal influence on bush but I believe economics is the main factor in most of that idiots policy decisions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2004
  14. Cazov I eat plastic Registered Senior Member

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    144
    Economics are the only factor in most decisions. Religion is generally used as a recruitment method and pep-talk sort of thing...at least that's what I've seen...granted there are situations where religion is the primary cause, but economics usually runs a close second...well, either economics or freedom from oppression

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    And let me know when George starts using religion to justify his policy...'cause that's when I have to transfer to some university outside of this country heh...
     
  15. leda Registered Senior Member

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    77
    Well, he may not be using it to JUSTIFY policy, but it seems like he's using it to DECIDE it!

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-01-bush-cover_x.htm

    Bush believes he was called by God to lead the nation at this time, says Commerce Secretary Don Evans, a close friend who talks with Bush every day.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37944-2003Jun26?language=printer

    Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen, meeting recently with militants to enlist their support for a truce with Israel, said that, when they met in Aqaba, President Bush had told him this: " God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [ Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38132

    In Woodward's book, he quotes the president as saying he prayed "for the strength to do the Lord's will" when committing the nation to go to war in Iraq.
     
  16. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,779
    Leda:
    That is exactly the clause I would have thrown at Path but you beat me to it. (you've fucked up the Prime minister though- Abbas)

    Path:
    Have you not seen the little lamb at Mass every fucking Sunday and then holding prayers in his jet when he misses them?
    Have you not heard of his 'creeping chistianisation' into fedearal programs?
    Have you not heard the dialogue he had once with a Texas evangelical (James Robinson)- "'I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

    Have you not heard our wonderful, excellent, powerful president referred to as the Crawford Crusader? Where where you when "Crusade" was slipped into the naming of the Iraqui operation and then diplomatically erased from it?

    Ever heard of William Boykin? A general appointed by this Bush character to lead the hunt for Osama? Did you know that he told a whole congregation of sweet little Christians that the "War on Terror" was a fight against Satan? That his God was bigger than the Somali and Muslim god, that in his heart of hearts he knew that his God was real an all others idols?

    Does it have to be written policy that Bush feels divinely inspired and motivated? Oh yeah- you won't believe it until you see him frothing at the mouth like a mujahadeen who's house has just been blown up by an Apache and now he's screaming "Death to America!", yes?

    You won't believe it until our quiet, deceptive little president actually looks rabid. Simpleton.

    Even the the National Security Adivsor....................is a bloody Christian.
     
  17. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    Gendanken, the answer to almost every "did you not see question" is NO I live in Norway and am not a big TV watcher. That is why I asked you for policy papers or statements that outline specifically religion as policy maker. I have no doubt that religion affects or influences the lives of many in the US, it is after all the most religious country in the western world.
     
  18. Eluminate Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    359
    lol i think its the least religious country in the western world and I live here.
    The only religion that is practiced here is the worship of the dollar and thats a religion that is practiced by all. He'll they even thought about deleting "under god" from the constitution to suit athiests and that is very non-religious. Money is the only god here thats adhered to most if not all of the religions are scams anyways.
     
  19. Yazan the truth is always hidden. Registered Senior Member

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    91
    Sorry for not being in touch for a while although I raised this subject, I was out of border.
    Any way I’ll try to answer for all in one short post
    path, caffeine_fubar
    believe it or not, most of these violent actions taken by some Muslims are reactions for many actions taken by the west against their countries
    In Islam if someone took your land or invaded you, it is a very big sin to not fight back or resist, because invading a country means also a chance to change things in this country like people’s religion. Which is what Islam cannot accept.
    And when I read history I see when there was a real Islamic governments people were fine. I don’t count the faked Muslim once. I read for some orientalist and I know that at the time of real Islam things were realy fine.
    gendanken
    read what I said to path, and by the way, what you said about what happened in Africa, I guess who ever told you that information has forgotten to tell you who was actually rolling those countries
    I don’t wait you to explain Quran for me. Your explanation or whomever this is by is fault. And finally the historical information is also wrong. Please know more about Arab and Muslims before you just argue

    Cazov,
    Bin laden might be mistaken, but what I’m sure of is, Bin Laden is reacting for some actions taken by the west, a cording to religious believes, he is a billionaire, he doesn’t need more money and he is not going to get more by this way, and it is not because he wants to be famous, I guess there are other safe ways to be famous since he got all that money.
    Yazan
     
  20. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    Where did the US invade muslim lands or steal muslim property before 9/11?
     
  21. Yazan the truth is always hidden. Registered Senior Member

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    I did not say that America invaded any Arab country (although it did), America does what is worse, it builds military bases in Arab countries. It says that it is a country of democracy where it knows pretty well that 99% of Arab don’t want them there. It does it because the chicken governors of Arab countries are afraid to say no, because political and economical reasons.
    1954 it put its nose in Iran business in order take out the leader of Iran who said no to the US.
    1956 America made the southern Areas of Sinai clear for the seizers.
    1958 the marines were loaded in Lebanon.
    1967-1969 America was involved in military actions in Indonesia.
    1980 Delta America transgression in Iran under the excuse of freeing the hostages.
    1982 the American marines entered till 50km in the Lebanon coast to covered the Israeli invasion.
    1983 bombed Libya.
    Invaded Somalya (by the way what happened there is not what you saw in "Black hawk down"

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    Before Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US government said (I saw it by my self) :
    What’s going between Iraq and Kuwait is an internal business, and the US has nothing to do with it.
    As soon as Iraq invaded Kuwait America sent its army there and destroyed
    8347 civilian buildings
    157 bridges
    130 electrical power station
    249 nursing house
    139 social building
    100 hospitals
    1708 school and orphanage
    What is worse, America is the real invader in the northern Arab countries, Israel wont survives without the American support.
     
  22. Thersites Registered Senior Member

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    535
    I'm sure the Spaniards/ Greeks/ Indians appreciated this muslim attitude when they were invaded.
    When and where were these "real islamic governments"? If things were so fine, why were these wonderful governments got rid of?
     
  23. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    You forgot the Serbs, Croats, Macedonians, Armenians, and Georgians to name a few
     

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