# Unf**king Believable, A mosque to be built at Ground Zero

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by pavlosmarcos, Jun 8, 2010.

1. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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Most of the people posting here are not advocating legally banning the thing.

Most of the people posting here are not talking about banning Islam from Ground Zero, or Muslims from anywhere.

The issue is whether the political symbolism of the location of this project, this furthering of the Cordoba Initiative, this building - as believed in by them, promoted by them elsewhere in search of funding, and so forth - is offensive.

It's politics, not religion. And it's offensive as hell, legitimately, to a lot of people.

Do you think the provocation is intentional? Do you think they know what they are doing?

3. ### TheVisitorThe Journey is the RewardRegistered Senior Member

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Here is the genuine article. Notice pages 12, 13 and 14...http://www.aztlan.net/lavoz_northwoods/northwoods2.htm
No skyscrapers mentioned, but the rest of this is dead on.
- Hijacking civilian airliners, switching tail numbers, offloading passengers, flying the fake aircraft remotely.
- The duplicate would be substituted for the actual civilian aircraft, loaded with the selected passengers with carefully prepared aliases.
- The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
- Operation Northwoods had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
- Boats carrying innocent refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas.
- A wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere.
- Plastic bombs planted in advance.
- People would be framed for bombings they did not commit.
- Remotely piloted aircraft would be destroyed and pieces of wreckage planted to be found by search crews.

The fact there are people in Washington that could draw this stuff up to begin with and get it approved should be a warning in itself.

The "let's roll" plane that supposedly crashed into the ground by passengers fighting terrorists Sept. 11th in Pennsylvania was faked.
The crater was only about 20 feet in diameter probably made by small ordinance planted and detonated to create a photo-op.
http://www.nomoretyranny.org/gallery/gallery3-3.jpg
In reality wreckage was scattered for five miles in every direction which means the plane was destroyed in the air at significant altitude.
It was either destroyed by a remote signal to a bomb on board, or shot down by a missile.
They wouldn't even suggest it was shot down before it could reach the White House, as all of the planes should have been before they reached their targets.
They just lied and ignored the evidence. Why? Because the "let's roll" scenario was meant to produced hatred towards Muslims, not an air-force pilot.
The "stand-down" war games cover story was promoted by the same media that lied about all the rest of it.

Those who said this was an inside job were branded by the so-called experts the media called upon as fanatical "truthers".
When really the majority of them were relatives of the victims, and friends of the firemen who launched their own investigation.
Firemen who said they heard bombs going off as the towers collapsed.
"Northwoods" said they would plant explosives in advance, kill innocent civilians, frame innocent people for the destruction, hijack airliners, switch tail numbers, convert planes to remote drones, destroy them and plant wreckage to be found by search crews. We have all the required elements right there.

Last edited: Aug 8, 2010

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7. ### MaikaRegistered Member

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i can't believe the Lone Gunmen was more popular than the X files. it wasn't as good. although a friend of mine liked it. i liked that water car ep.

i dunno if CIA cares that much about that, you'd think they'd want us to be afraid of the US government. not think it's all warm and fuzzy.

8. ### MaikaRegistered Member

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maybe the Lone Gunmen got cancelled cuz of the water car ep, it was probably true. some army dude had said that an actual water engine had been invented but the inventor got threatened and his invention stolen by "the men in black". of course noone's gonna believe that, so what do they care?

9. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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Call me bananas but I see the Mosque in NY's GZ issue as signifying the mishap of a Mosque in the real GZ - Jerusalem. Its all about signs and omens before the big THUD factor - else everything is meaningless and random.

10. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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Yes. With no other conclusion applicable. Look what occured in India - a Mosque was erected on the Hindu peoples' most sacred site. This was preceded and emulated every place else on the planet.

11. ### Ja'far at-TahirGrand Ayatollah of SciForumsRegistered Senior Member

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According to you? To a non-Muslim who may not fully understand Islam or what such references would mean to Muslims and in particular this group of Muslims? This is you're interpretation, I for one didn't interpret this reference in such a manner. I find it "intriguing," that non-Muslims have so many grievances against Islam and Muslims and yet, again, when an Islamic group tries to promote, blatantly, gender equality, better relations and understanding between the 'Muslim' world and the 'West' that this is the group that everyone is suspicious of, this is the group that you're fighting against. I even believe they explained why and what this reference mean't to them which didn't suggest this in the least. I mean have you even looked at their website?

12. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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To understand how Americans feel is the more transcendent issue here, not how Muslims feel of a mosque in this place. How should Israelis feel of a Mosque in their most sacred site - should they go read the Quran for consolation? The rule is:

WHAT IS HATEFUL TO YOU - DO NOT UNTO OTHERS. :shrug:

13. ### RandwolfIgnorance killed the catValued Senior Member

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Hi, little friend. Imagine that. You don't get it. Hmmm...

This isn't about race or even religion, which has already been pointed out by numerous members. It's a political issue, and an attempt to build this drips with connotations offensive to many Americans.

Don't you see that it simply does not matter what the literal interpretation is? It's going to cause problems. It's going to fuel the fire, not douse it. It will provoke and focus hatred, not defuse it. Absolutely no good will come from it. Do you want more death? Probably of people of Islamic faith? IMHO, people will use this as an excuse to do so. Do you disagree with that?

If so, your worldview is extraordinarily narrow.

14. ### Ja'far at-TahirGrand Ayatollah of SciForumsRegistered Senior Member

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So American Muslims aren't Americans? They're opinions don't count? Who even says all American feel this way? Who says there isn't some non-Muslim Americans who see this hatred and outrage as baseless hysteria?

15. ### keith1Guest

How 'Ya Gonna Keep 'Em Down on the Farm? (After They've Seen Paree)
--Joe Young and Sam M. Lewis with music by Walter Donaldson

The juxtaposition of modern freedoms and religious intolerance are taking it's toll on all religious movements? Young people are easily bored by the old ways and scriptures? You can't bully a young university student into an old square hole? The melting pot works on everybody. Call it kismet.
--keith

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Did you say 'baseless'? Why not get Muslims to go get the 9/11 culprits with that $100M instead - then maybe Americans would pay for your mosque. Oh - I forgot - the claims of Americans are 'baseless'! My bad. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! 17. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member Messages: 72,825 So any update on the mosque? Is there a mosque? In other news, Rafiq Zakaria returned a$10,000 award granted him by the ADL. The award was related to the First Amendment and in his opinion an Anti-Discrimination League which opposes an Islamic center near 9/11 Ground Zero is not in keeping with its name or the First Amendment. Of course, Rafiq Zakaria has no idea that the ADL does not consider everyone to be equally worthy of not being discriminated against. The fact that they support Zionism should give him a hint.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/interna...p-s-opposition-to-ground-zero-mosque-1.306527

Still, it was a very public gesture which demonstrated quite effectively how superfluous the ADL is.

edit: Umm that should be Fareed Zakaria, not Rafiq, I always mix up father and son.

Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
18. ### Ja'far at-TahirGrand Ayatollah of SciForumsRegistered Senior Member

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Really? This is really you're response? You're a hypocrite.

19. ### Repo ManValued Senior Member

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If we can tolerate Fred Phelps and his loony bunch in this country, we can tolerate this.

20. ### Ja'far at-TahirGrand Ayatollah of SciForumsRegistered Senior Member

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Are you trying to imply something with this comparison?

21. ### Repo ManValued Senior Member

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I think both Christianity and Islam are a load of nonsense. But if Fred Phelps is free to do what he does, then that certainly sets the bar higher than anything I'd realistically expect to come from this mosque. There is a mosque a few miles away from me. It's easy to miss, it never gets in the news. Apparently, those who attend services there do so, and otherwise mind their own business. I'd expect that would also be the case with the mosque in question.

Have any other mosques in New York city been an issue? How close is too close to where the World Trade Center stood? If it were a block further away, would that be far enough? Six blocks? Is all of Manhattan off limits?

22. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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Why is it hypocritical to ask that Muslims prove themselves by apprehending their mass murderers - is there a more open way of addressing the families of the innocent people killed on 9/11? Why a Fatwah for a novelist and cartoonist instead - but not for Bin Laden?

I report - you decide who's the hypocrit. Here's a new book from an American author which says the Muslims aligned with the Nazis in W.W.II - and still glorifies their Mayor who went to Adolf begging him not to let any Jews escape alive:

23. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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Its not about geometry. Its about not glorifying Bin Laden as a neo Islamic prophet - by proving it. Its about rejecting that all non-muslims are infidels - screamed by the new kid on the block.