UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    (I'm back on Yazata's ignore list? Did I say something that offended?)
     
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  3. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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  5. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    You might remember him previously saying "If you want me to respond to your ideas, you might try being a bit less aggressive and confrontational in how you present them."
    Maybe, therefore, if he has chosen to once again ignore you, it has something to do with you starting your latest post to him with yet more aggression. To wit: "thank you for replying, for a change."?

    However, if not, it begs the question of why you are you that insecure that you start fretting when someone doesn't reply to you within a mere 9 hours?? Sure, he responded to someone else, but maybe he only had the time to respond to one post and is now asleep?

    But, above all, if you're really that concerned, rather than once again merely trying to play to an audience, why don't you send him a PM and keep it between yourselves? This site isn't all about you, James R.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    ?
    How is it not just a couple of birds/bugs flying across the view?
     
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    The relatively poor quality of the footage once again makes it hard to discern what it likely is, and it's not even possible to tell what altitude it's at. As such it could be insects or birds much closer to the camera, for example. Not saying it is, mind, but that would be my guess.
     
  9. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Go back again and see the lighted ''object'' flying behind the clouds, in an upward direction.
     
  10. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think they're insects or birds. We can't decipher what exactly it is, but I think this one is easier to say what it isn't.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It's not flying behind the clouds.
    *Edit
    It's (surely) a bird!

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  12. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    In the article, there’s mention of someone claiming it’s a bird. Someone else, a dust particle. lol

    Hmm. I’m a skeptic with these types of videos, but I’m just not seeing a “high flying bird.”
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I think you're funnin' with us.
     
  14. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not ''funnin'' with you. lol So, one vote for ''it's a bird'' and my vote is for ''I don't know, yet.''

    Let's see what the others think.

    To me - ''UFO'' doesn't mean ''alien spacecraft,'' as if that's the default position, although many probably believe that is where the discussion is leading.
     
  15. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Reread your own post #8019. It's nothing but a succession of insults, directed at MR for agreeing with me.

    I believe that my reply to him in post #8020 addressed your points from post #8018.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
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  16. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Of the three images in 8030, the middle one does look like a bird. The one on the left looks like a squid. But from context, I'd hypothesize 'bird' as well, though merely as a guess and with a low level of conviction. There are other things it could be as well, ranging from a high flying aircraft or even a satellite. That being said, I'm very much with you in opting first and foremost to "I don't actually know". That's the only thing that I can say with assurance at this point.

    Returning to some points made earlier, notice that we are addressing the images on the photograph as given. We aren't immediately defaulting to camera artifacts (which remains another viable hypothesis) or demanding that all possible sources of error be eliminated (probably an impossible task) before we begin to consider the image as shown. All plausible hypotheses as to what accounts for the image need to be considered, which certainly includes photographic artifacts as well as other things.

    I agree very strongly. UFO's occur all the time, since not everything seen in the sky is identified. The ideas that some/many/all of them are alien spacecraft is an expression of a peculiar sort of faith, while the idea that they will all reduce to the mundane (in the "nothing of interest to see here" sense) is equally an expression of a pre-existing ontological belief, the belief that anything outside the "nothing of interest to see here" box must of necessity be dismissed as what they call "woo".
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
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  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OK. I concede.
    1. Objects moving in the sky can never be ruled out with high-confidence as non-exotic.
    2. Even if they look like a bird, move like a bird, are in the very place where birds look and fly, and - and I cannot stress this one enough - there is is zero evidence that points to anything other than a bird or insect flying in the sky.
    3. We investigate all objects with equal diligence, even if it takes a thousand years (i.e. more time than we possibly have) to get through them all with a full and complete analysis.
    4. We avoid any prioritizing of our investigations, (such as, say, the most likely to bear fruitful knowledge before the least likely).
    5. We come to terms with the fact that - unless it literally lands and taxis up to us on a runway, where we can touch its still-warm Goodyears, we can't be sure of its origin enough to move on to greener pastures.
    6. The universe is a mystery! It always will be! Science is futile and cannot help us learn anything about the world. All that matters is what we believe in our hearty-hearts.
    Anyone disagree with these principles?
    If so, be prepared to defend your disagreement in the context of analysis of this particular incident.

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It's also just as "possible" it's angels or a sea serpent. All of them have never been confirmed.

    The salient question I put to all enthusiasts is this:

    If your motives really are to seek out the truth (as opposed to wallowing in "It's a Mystery!"), then how much time and effort (considering they're limited) do you want to put into exploring the possibility that its angels or a sea serpent or any other "possible" explanation? Wouldn't you want to concentrate what resources we have on the ones most likely to bear fruit?

    Because that's what skeptics want. It only takes one confirmed exotic UAP to throw all our doubts out the window and shut us up and prove you guys right. Everything we do is in an effort to maximize the chances that the 'truth will out'.


    Can you say the same?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  19. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    It's a sighting report whose explanation is currently unknown.

    OK. That's the nature of it being unidentified. It doesn't fall easily into any of the familiar explanatory categories.

    OK. But 'unfamiliar sighting' doesn't automatically translate to 'false sighting' either.

    If the instruments and witnesses are generally reliable, it makes sense (if by induction alone) to assume that most likely, they are reliable in the unfamiliar instance as well.

    If the new JWST sights some unfamiliar astrophysical event deep in the cosmos, astronomers don't immediately jump to the conclusion that the JWST must be malfunctioning because they've never detected anything like that before.

    But until they are, the sighting that was reported as given still remains the primary datum to be explained and can't simply be dismissed with a sneer.

    I wrote: "What they say there doesn't imply that they are refusing to investigate the reports that they are given. It just says that more likely than not, the instrumentation was working correctly and that the observers are reporting their perceptions accurately."

    It's consistent with what they wrote. They preface the text that you quoted by noting weather, atmospheric effects and interpretation of sensor data. And they conclude by acknowledging that a "select number" of sightings are attributable to things like sensor malfunctions or operator error. So it simply isn't plausible to read them as if they are willfully ignoring such things.

    Yes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  20. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, but bear in mind that "I don't know, yet" is not the same as "I think it equally likely to be a bird, or an insect, or an alien visitation, etc". And ultimately even DaveC is not claiming to know for sure.

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  21. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    That big object that seems to be the main focus of the footage, with the clouds forming behind it... that's possibly exotic, right? Aliens seeding our atmosphere with "clouds"? I mean, anyone with a "high-confidence" that it's just a mundane airliner.... pfft... amateurs!

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  22. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I feel Mick West vibes on this page. lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  23. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, that's true.

    Maybe, none of us will ever know what these flying objects are. Random videos (by themselves) by average sky gazers aren't exactly evidence of anything extraordinary. To know, would require evidence. That said, debunking doesn't require evidence (to debunk and be looked at as an “expert”on the subject) and that seems unfair.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023

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