# Trump warns US citizens to exercise increased caution in New Zealand due to Covid-19

Discussion in 'Politics' started by paddoboy, Aug 8, 2020.

1. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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15,059
This may be of interest, from the internet;

If the commander in chief attempts to ignore the election’s results, you will face a choice. August 11, 2020.
Dear General Milley: As chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you are well aware of your duties in ordinary times: to serve as principal military advisor to the president of the United States, and to transmit the lawful orders of the president and Secretary of Defense to combatant commanders. In ordinary times, these duties are entirely consistent with your oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”

We do not live in ordinary times. The president of the United States is actively subverting our electoral system, threatening to remain in office in defiance of our Constitution. In a few months’ time, you may have to choose between defying a lawless president or betraying your Constitutional oath. We write to assist you in thinking clearly about that choice.

If Donald Trump refuses to leave office at the expiration of his constitutional term, the United States military must remove him by force, and you must give that order. Due to a dangerous confluence of circumstances, the once-unthinkable scenario of authoritarian rule in the United States is now a very real possibility.

First, as Mr. Trump faces near certain electoral defeat, he is vigorously undermining public confidence in our elections.
Second, Mr. Trump’s defeat would result in his facing not merely political ignominy, but also criminal charges. Third, Mr. Trump is assembling a private army capable of thwarting not only the will of the electorate but also the capacities of ordinary law enforcement.

When these forces collide on January 20, 2021, the U.S. military will be the only institution capable of upholding our Constitutional order. There can be little doubt that Mr. Trump is facing electoral defeat. More than 160,000 Americans have died from COVID 19, and that toll is likely to rise to 300,000 by November. One in ten U.S. workers is unemployed, and the U.S. economy in the last quarter suffered the greatest contraction in its history.

Nearly 70 percent of Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. The Economist estimates that Mr. Trump’s chances of losing the election stand at 91 percent.

3. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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5,232
USA water rights for farmers
usa lack of infrastructure to provide collect and distribute water for free to farmers
lack of free water for usa citizens

usa working class pay for farmers free water

usa drought issues

false game

real game
cash for laws
remove water regulations and get given millions of dollars and key support

problem that wont be fixed
= drought and lack of clean safe drinking water for the populations(or farmers)

extreme voter support = if you have the money, you should be allowed to buy what ever you want, people children guns etc ...
that is an ideology pushed by the far right

i hope he doesn't get into bed with them
how he proposes to sell the idea of the working class paying for new water infrastructure to financially endow the farmers i dont know
only a left leaning government could probably sell that to the voters without being a fascist dictator

key issues with new water production and distribution
= land rights
thats a moral civil war that is still going on from the usa civil war
that war exists inside the minds and cultures of many americans
no president could simply solve that with any law
most are likely to avoid the subject if possible

what new laws have been created in the wake of the flint water mass child poisoning ?
none ?
if it was china there would have been firing squads

Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
Sarkus likes this.

5. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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5,232
whats that good old American expression ?
"bringing them to justice"

whats the flip side of that social coin ? = financial compensation ?

ZERO on both counts

i dont know the precise facts, just what i have gathered from the TV news and reading about it watching a few documentary's, reading the odd findings etc.

do i think those at the top should get the death penalty ?
im anti death penalty

what i personally think is required
an actual finding that shows the result as being defined by a court to be an act that can be financially claimed against and finds a process of common law to define it as negligent domestic terrorism(or similar).

it should not be a media football to win de-regulation votes with
or a donkey n cart to line the pockets of rich fat cat legal advisers for a 5 year gold plated job that delivers ZERO to the clients(the citizens whom were and still are poisoned AND whom are paying the bill for all those rich fat cat lawyers and legal advisers and directors who never were forced through pay scales and poverty to drink town supply water)

Last edited: Aug 14, 2020

7. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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5,232
for example

if i was a usa citizen
found a truck sitting there with the motor running & it had anthrax painted on the side of the truck(yes lol charged with attempted murder of a heavy metal band[or a social savior if you dont like heavy metal)
i decide to take the truck for a drive
and leave it on a hill so it rolls into the town water supply

do i get a driving violation ticket for illegal parking ?
or do i get terrorism convictions ?

or do i get a presidential medal of bravery for removing the truck from the road where it might have been stolen or crashed into
american laws for the rich ?

9. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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30,562
Uh, you do realize that you are responding in an exchange which started as Sarkus saying - and I am borrowing your juvenile paraphrase, so no complaints - "Trump is not great!"? Since you seem to have missed it, I repeat with bolding: " - - - not great!" The word "not" is a negation - "not great" is the opposite of "great".

All these posts of mine in this thread are by way of responding to someone saying "Trump is not great" - right here, right in front of you, with a winking emoji and the whole shebang.

And not only saying that, but insisting on it - making a big deal out of it, complaining in one post after another that they hadn't been understood as saying that, accusing other people of missing their point when they said that. There are several posts devoted to the matter - extending over (what was your attempted insult?) two pages or more, right up above in this thread.

You can't possibly have missed it.
Meanwhile:
None of that appears to exist, in any response of mine to anyone who posts anything resembling "Trump is great!", in this thread or anywhere else on this forum.
Apparently you need me to have posted like that, for some reason - and I can't help but notice it's a common need, one you share with several other posters here. That makes it an issue, rather than a quirk.
Ok.
My first guess is that you guys are trying to avoid the implications of the Poe's Law reference above, regarding your own posting as well as Sarkus's et al. But that's speculation: Do you have any better idea why you need me to have posted like that? Maybe start simple: find what you took for two pages of posting "full of aspersions against their intelligence" (sic), and let's take a look at it.
If it's anything like this post I'm typing now, in which I find myself instructing you in the role of the word "not" as it modifies an adjective, you should be able to handle the analysis yourself.
If you don't give a shit about something, why get all bent out of shape by the calm, honest, and accurate posting of those who do?
Why not pay attention instead - learn something?

Lesson 1: Trump=Republican, Republican=Trump.

Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
10. ### SarkusHippomonstrosesquippedalo phobeValued Senior Member

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8,808
You did miss the point, and you are still missing the point. Whether Trump, or the Republican party, "are not great!" (or however you wish to paraphrase what I actually said) is not the point. Note the part I have bolded. As you yourself understand: "not" is a negation. "Is not the point" is the opposite of "is the point". That you think something is the point when it is not the point is evidence, if more was needed, that you didn't, and still don't, get what the point was.
Further (and I'm sure billvon will correct me if I'm wrong) his assertion that you would start a crusade if someone said "Trump is great!" is an example of you taking something out of context, as he continued to say that you would provide the same response if someone effectively said the opposite - i.e. that Trump is not great! So your complaint in this regard is simply due to your dishonesty. As to the accuracy of what he thinks your crusade would entail by way of response, I leave that to him to respond to. I'm just noting your dishonesty here.
He didn't seem to. But you did miss the point of my original post in this thread. And you still seem to miss it. Fortunately at least one other did not.
I'm not all bent out of shape, thanks. As for your posting being honest... well, that's addressed in part above. And while you continue to fail to support your otherwise baseless accusations, it further struggles to achieve the status of being considered honest. Accurate? It's not - because you missed the point of what I posted. You may have hit the fairway, or even the green, of the hole you played, but if it's not the hole in play then it's not what I would call a particularly accurate shot. And I honestly don't really care about the hole you were playing. It's not the one I played down.
Given the point of what I wrote: so what? Or are you just teeing up another ball to shoot down the wrong fairway that will sound like caterwauling when in flight?

11. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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18,724
This is actually pretty funny. I said that you tend to start a crusade against people who disagree with you, full of aspersions against their intelligence, what you perceive as their political inclinations, how they are destroying America etc. You answered angrily "None of that appears to exist, in any response of mine."

You then cast aspersions on my intelligence: "I find myself instructing you in the role of the word 'not' as it modifies an adjective, you should be able to handle the analysis yourself." "Why not pay attention instead - learn something?"
You then start the angry crusade: "If you don't give a shit about something why get bent all out of shape . . "
Followed by a quick pat-yourself-on-the-back for your own calm, reasoned intelligence: "by the calm, honest, and accurate posting of those who do?"

You're funny - and are as predictable as a Trump supporter at a science rally.

12. ### candyRegistered Senior Member

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868
So far "chump" is having a good month.
Did some "draining of the swamp" at TVA and possibly the USPS.
Since the House went on vacation without reaching a compromise to help 15.5 million unemployed he acted unilaterally (probably without the authority to do so).
Facilitated an historic agreement for Israel and UAE to exchange ambassadors.
It is only the middle of the month; what else does he have in his bag of tricks?
Since most people tend to vote in favor of their own pocketbooks odds currently favor his re-election.

13. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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18,724
Unemployment is currently at 10.2%. It was at 4% when he entered office.

From CNBC:
======
The U.S. is officially experiencing an economic recession, according to a Monday statement from private non-profit research organization National Bureau of Economic Research. While many experts and economists generally define a recession as a GDP decline in back-to-back quarters, they defer to NBER to officially make the call.
======

14. ### (Q)Encephaloid MartiniValued Senior Member

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20,682
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said he and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made the decision to keep the chamber on an extended recess after discussing the situation with the official House physician, as well as House members.
“The numbers (of coronavirus cases) in the District of Columbia are still going up,” Hoyer told reporters. “The House physician’s view was that there was a risk to members that was one he would not recommend taking.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ter-all-due-to-coronavirus-risk-idUSKCN22A215

Given the situation, one would hope the nation’s leaders would be devoting every waking hour to addressing the crisis. Instead, the Senate is treating itself to a nice little three-week vacation.
Yes, after passing last night’s \$2 trillion stimulus bill, Mitch McConnell has rewarded lawmakers with a holiday that will last until April 20, when they are scheduled to return to the nation’s capitol. The Senate was originally meant to be in session next week with a two-week recess starting March 31, but apparently decided, Why not kick things off early? There’s nothing really keeping us here. While Nancy Pelosi has already said she believes it will be necessary to pass further legislation, noting that “There’s so many things we didn’t get in any of these bills yet in the way that we need to,” McConnell would rather get started on spring break.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/senate-coronavirus-vacation

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16. ### parmaleeperipatetic artisanValued Senior Member

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3,015
???
Putting that into perspective:
While apparently 5+ million cases and 170+ thousand deaths in the U.S. isn't enough for Trump to be bothered.

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26,513
My first reaction also after reading Vociferous's post...?????
I mean is he fair dinkum?
NZ has acted promptly and correctly in containing and/or eliminating the virus as quick as possible, while Trump the chump, plays mind games and politcal games....

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26,513
And as a consequence, Trump is still, obviously a Chump!!!!
as is all those that make excuses for him.

19. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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18,724
So by their own standards they have four COVID cases. And they shut down. We have 5.4 million and the idiots are arguing we should reopen, go back to school and assume nothing will happen when flu season hits.

So who's winning this battle against COVID, again?

20. ### VociferousValued Senior Member

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1,761
First, the US doesn't need any more seeding of the virus, no matter what the relative risk from other countries. Since NZ has already had community spread and doesn't know the source of the new infections, there's no guarantee that their second wave will go as well as their first. But it's cute how both of you seem to think that more cases in the US somehow means US citizens would be immune if they traveled to NZ. While we might have built more herd immunity, that is not yet a demonstrated fact.

NZ had also gone three months without any known community spread. The US likely never had full contact tracing (as we didn't know it was initially coming in through Europe), and is highly unlikely to ever have it. That means that NZ has a chance of avoiding community spread, where the US likely never did. While shutdowns may help avoid community spread, they have not shown effective in stopping ubiquitous untraceable spread.

21. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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Agreed 100%. Yet even today, right wingers do everything they can to sow the virus as widely as possible - and calling themselves patriots for doing so.
Also agreed. But so far their track record has been quite good - and ours has not. So someone has their act together.
A most excellent strawman! I imagine it will have some great arguments with you, which you will undoubtedly win. Be sure to pat yourself on the back when you do win against your imaginary argument.
I agree. But that is due to government incompetence, not because it's impossible.
They worked here. They worked in New Zealand. So yes, they have been shown effective in stopping spread.

22. ### VociferousValued Senior Member

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1,761
Unsupported bare assertion.

The do tell. Why is it ridiculous to warn Americans about traveling to NZ?
You're obvious deflection just demonstrates you haven't thought it through.

That's due to a critical lack of early information, in a very large country compared to an island.
In 2019 the number of international visitors to New Zealand was 11.32 Million people
https://www.statista.com/statistics/687331/new-zealand-international-visitors/

In 2019, there were 79.26 million international visitors to the U.S.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/214686/number-of-international-visitors-to-the-us/

Yet, even in US areas with the strictest lock down measures, significant secondary spikes have occurred.

23. ### James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member

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34,678
Imagine you are a New Zealander. Difficult, I know, but try. In the current circumstances, would you want a sudden influx of visitors from the Covid-riddled United States? What's more applicable here: New Zealand warning its citizens against travelling to the US, or vice versa? What do you think?