Trump and the Judiciary

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    9,679
    As I recall from the general news he is questioning voter fraud

    To me that indicates he is secure any detected fraud will not affect his win

    If fraud is removed from the voting is that not a good thing?
     
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    yeah but what if they find the reverse and that Trumps vote was fraudulently obtained instead?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I guess Democrats would be dancing in the streets instead of rioting

    Donald would seed to Hilary and we can all go back to sleep
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I keep thinking that we're missng the point here.

    Trump is thinking - about what his constituency wants to hear.

    He is merely an echo chamber for approximately 50% of the people who are fearful - and they want to hear their leader say what they are thinking.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I hope not.

    He can't be assassinated and he can't be forcibly removed from office. Either one will turn him into a martyr.

    No, at this point, I believe Trump's fanbase needs to lie in the bed they've made for themselves. They need to see the consequences. They need to lie in that bed until they say "OK, that was dumb. Let's never do that again, K?"

    Anything less, and they will simply continue think they've been cheated, which will just make them more righteous and more crazy.
     
  9. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    I presume you meant "cede to Hilary". They don't like each other enough for what you've written to take place.
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    You presume correctly

    It should take place but I doubt it would and I have no idea of what the mechanism would be or if it would not take place because of some rule or other

    • 5 : a competitor who has been seeded in a tournament <the top seed>
    Mirriam-Webster

    I had this in mind when I typed the post but I stand corrected
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Several people are saying he should be impeached, but I think you are correct. If this was a normal situation. This, however, is not a normal situation.

    Don't forget, what he is doing now is why they voted him in in the first place. Ergo, his fan base do not see his actions as consequences as much as seeing it as being something politically and socially viable and desirable. If you read some of the right wing news sites, they are cheering him on and angry at any attempt to stop him.

    His comments about the "so called judge" is an attempt to strike down the court's injunction and remove any notion of legitimacy of the court and the judge(s) who may rule against his administration's orders. He is literally eroding trust in the judiciary and the system itself, and certainly, for the judge in question.

    From what I understand, the federal judge that issued the injunction was appointed by the younger Bush, and his supporters still see it as an attempt to subvert Trump's right and ability to rule. You only have to look at the comments section of some of these sites to see just how his fan base see Trump. The Blaze is one such site.

    They feel as though they are being cheated now, because people are daring to attempt to stop Trump. They literally feel as though the judge and the court system is against them and Trump has been pushing this argument since before he won the election. In other words, his supporters believe that the judiciary cannot be trusted and the only person they can trust is Trump.

    While you are absolutely correct, I don't think it would work in this instance in that they (his fan base) are incapable of seeing the consequences that everyone else sees. The only way they would be in a position to do so would be if Trump did something they felt was progressive. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,701
    alt-fact Trumpism perhaps

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe the fan base you refer to was asked if they wished the USA constitution to allow legitimacy to only one race, what that race would be?

    and how many generation do we need to go back to determine purity etc... and then determine the penalty for being born outside that race...
     
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    No

    Grammatical error

    Yes
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,701
    wouldn't stand in court why do you expect it to stand here.... lol
     
  16. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    2,830
    I fully support Trump and hope that Seattle judge James Robart will loose the appeal, because the rationale was not only 9/11, but to protect the United States from the potential for terrorism. This is temporary and does not effect those who have no ties to terrorism. This Seattle judge is acting from his own interest in pleasing the public and not in the interest of United States, he does not have all of the security information that the President has to make such a decision.

    Trump's immigration ban is for the countries which are most likely to bring in terrorists to US, it is imperative that new system is set up to filter people from these countries and let the families and good people in and bad people out. This is the whole purpose of the ban.

    Judge Robart himself has said,

    The judge does not have access to security data that Trump has access to. The judge does not have access to all prevented terrorist attacks so far and the info on future ones. This fact is missing and this is the reason why the President will win against this judge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Twofold:

    Shock effect: If you do enough damage in jolts like this, it cannot be undone easily. For warmongers, this is all to the better.

    Narrative: One thing about #AlternativeFacts is that they have driven an influential portion of the Republican Party in my lifetime. Between '93 and '96, for instance, the courts undid Colorado's anti-gay law, and conservatives haven't given up whining about liberal judicial activism, legislating from the bench, and the evils of a government that usurps the People by not letting them usurp the Constitution. I would certainly say they've arrived at voting age. And this is how their narrative goes: Demand impossible outcome. Force impossible outcome. Lose impossible outcome. Complain about tyranny. Don't bother rinsing, just repeat.

    Essentially, the first is part of creating a "clash of civilizations" with genocidal overtones framed as an inevitability forced on good and decent American Christians by those evil Saracens. The second part is how they do it. Let us imagine gathering signatures on a petition to banish the Catholic Church from the State of Washington on the grounds that it is a racket collecting insane amounts of wealth while aiding and abetting diverse manners of sexual predator. Let us imagine we passed this law at the ballot box. At this point you might expect the courts would stop us. Indeed, they would. In Oklahoma, by contrast, the measure would not be allowed on the ballot at all, but I don't think we have that limitation.

    Still, though, the courts would stop this. Just because people vote for it is not a good enough reason to make any particular law. And this really pisses off the people who want to vote blacks off the island, or statutorily mandate women should shut the fuck up, or whatever.

    But this is essentially what they do. They keep attacking human rights at the ballot box and then bawling that they are oppressed and violated when they lose in court. Will President Trump have enough followers to force the results he wants? If that sounds ominous, perhaps it should. The idea is that at some level these people want to wreck and rebuild the United States of America, but they are patriots, so they cannot revolt; instead, they must only fight back because Evil left them no choice.

    This time they cannot delegitimize the presidency; they must, instead, delegitimize the society.

    And there you find Bannon's motive.
     
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  18. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    His fan base as you are calling them, is the majority that won the election for US President Mr. Trump. This is the majority of US people. So lets call it by its real name, the citizens of USA are supporting Trump, their president in securing the borders and securing our nation and securing the citizens of our nation. We, the supporters of our President see the consequences from Obamas administration and the numerous terrorist attacks and the growing terrorist threat and see Mr. Trump's actions as necessary to keep us all safe. I know the people of Seattle sure feel safe on the other side of the country with the immigrants giving a huge boost to their economy thanks to numerous IT companies hiring people from Middle East, Asia, and etc. Well, those people are the good guys, and I am sure after temporary ban everything will be back in place and the good guys who help economy will be let back inside USA, but the bad guys related to ISIS or AlQuida or etc will be kept in those terror countries. Now the question, Why would you undermine safety of US citizens based on the growing terrorist threat versus "helping the refugees". Yes refugees need to be helped, but first a system needs to set up to protect the citizens.

    US Citizens first, refugees second. DO you agree? Yes or NO.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    You do realize those statement's are false? Yes or No?
     
  20. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    If you are referring to electoral votes, than tell me why is electoral college set up in US? What is the purpose of electoral college vs popular vote?

    The purpose of electoral college is for highly populated areas like California or New York is not to take advantage and vote for specific candidate but to let underrepresented and rural parts of the nation to have equally balanced voice. Trump was chosen as president of USA to represent all of the areas of USA, not just the populistic California/New York.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    well I am confident that Trumps DOP will bring credible evidence of imminent, compelling, and ongoing threat of terrorists from every single one of those 7 nations if they have any which I doubt...

    and if they don't youreyes
    1. Will that change anything for you regarding this issue.?
    2. Will you still promote an attack on the constitution?
    3. Will you accept the courts ruling like everyone else will have to?
    My guess is no it wont and you will keep on with your attacks on the foundation values of the USA.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,701
    Why did you post "the majority of the people" when knowing it to be false?
     
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  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,701
    Then why didn't Trump make reference to that security data other than saying that Obama had flagged countries for certain issues years ago. He has no privileged secret data.
     

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