Touchdown for freedom: Senate votes 90-8 against 1994 AWB renewal

Blatant ignorance again Moosey! If you were an "ATF agent", and I were a "bad guy" and I wanted to shoot through your bullet proof vest, all I would need is a CZ-52 hand gun and some steel core rounds. This is the most common round available for this gun. Both of these can be purchased together for under 150 dollars.

So, no you can't find any study that proves that the AWB has lowered crime. Ok then.

And BTW, assault rifles can still be legally purchased, just not in certain configurations, not that legality ever stops criminals from obtaining guns. And no, there isn't much armor out there that could stop a .223 or 7.62X39 round, the two most common assault rifle rounds that are used in some of the assault rifles sold just today.

" A "responsible gun owner" friend of mine had this happen to him just recently in fact."

If he is so responsible, why didn't he have his shit locked up? I do, unless I am home.

 

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Well, and I say this emphatically, DUH! Pre-ban weaponry or magazines are, however, now prohibitively expensive due to the lack of new supply. Criminals can no longer get their hands on this stuff for a couple hundred bucks. Its all well and good to theorize that there are ways to kill a body armored police officer with nothing but a handgun, but an informed professional with intent to kill cops, most desperate criminals are not. If I'm going to be shot, I doubt its by an AP bullet.

Also, the folks in the gun culture that I have observed tend to be highly resistant to things like gun locks, or locking up your guns, after all, how are you going to get to it quickly if its locked up? that’s what they tell me anyway.

I believe my "responsible gun owner" friend did indeed have his guns locked up in a lockbox in his closet, but apparently the thieves were armed with sophisticated rubber mallet and chisel technology that somehow baffles many conventional locks.

 

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Using a rubber mallet with a chisel would not even yield good results against even the weakest of locks. Chisels should always be used with a metal hammer. You, Moosey, are indeed the epitome of ignorance. This leads me to believe your whole story about your “gun buddy” is a total load of shit.

 

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Yes, the mallet was indeed my own insinuation, he did however claim that he had his two pistols locked up. But dont wory, after the robery he went out and bought new ones, so his home is still safe from robery...

 

This flash animation does a good job of summing the AWB: http://www.flashbunny.org/content/assaultweapons.html

You know, in case things like the Bill of Rights aren't important enough already.

 

Haha the end of that flash animation is hilarious. Contact your congressman, and the president, do it now. . . for the children! Haha, yes, the children who desperately need their AK-47s? I don't get it, I mean I can think of a good few reasons why one should be in favor of letting the AWban die. . . but for the children? That's some fucked up shit right there.

Oh, and one brief word about assault rifles for home defense: No, don't! Two things you don't want in your own home are high velocity rounds, that could puncture flimsy walls (I know they pretty much make 'em outa paper mache around here) and potentially something or someone dear to you, and you sure as hell don't want automatic fire tearing your place up if a few rounds happen to miss their mark. Hell even if you hit your mark, hitting someone with three 7.62 rounds at close range, you're pretty likely to have some of those rounds come out the other end and smash again into stuff you'd rather not shoot under normal circumstances. That's why small caliber’s are used so often for police work, if the idea is to shoot the badguys you don't want a round that is going to refuse to stop once it clears them.

 

I think it's tongue in cheek. Poking fun of the demagogues for whom OH WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN has always been a hallmark of their lexicon. I remember back in 93-94 when they were fighting to get this bill pushed through Congress, and "for our children" was honestly on a lot of the pamphlets.

 

well at least that could hold some water.

 

“That's why small caliber’s are used so often for police work, if the idea is to shoot the bad guys you don't want a round that is going to refuse to stop once it clears them.”

I would hardly call a .45 caliber 230 grain (in comparison, a .55 caliber ball of lead weighs 250 grains) round, small. The police also commonly use .40 caliber rounds, which are sizeable as well. However, these rounds seem to be used less commonly than the .355 caliber(9mm) these days. With modern hollow point defense rounds these rounds usually don’t over penetrate due to their general slow velocity.

“.Two things you don't want in your own home are high velocity rounds, that could puncture flimsy walls (I know they pretty much make 'em outa paper mache around here) and potentially something or someone dear to you”

Frangible ammo.
http://www.mindspring.com/~bad_karma/gaming/WoD/Gunfondlers/mercury_frangible.htm

A few rounds of frangible in you may not kill you, but it would at least have you running an cryin fo yo mamma.

As for over penetrating with other rounds, the same applies as it always does while shooting a firearm, if you don’t know what’s behind the target don’t shoot. Just like in a car, if you drive irresponsibly, you end up crashing, and have to face the consequences.

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On the topic of home defense, as a firearms safety instructor (part time volunteer) I cannot, in good conscience, recommend anything other than a pistol for home defense. Unless you live in a football stadium, most hallways in most houses aren't wide enough to fit a long arm of legal length through sideways, and that alone is enough to make a shotgun or any type of rifle a poor tactical choice.

As far as rifle rounds penetrating walls that is true, but hardly more than pistol rounds. Domestic construction is rarely impervious to any sort of ballistic damage. While I was in college some housemates and I had a pistol in .22 short that we were firing into a target backed by a thick phone book, and then the wall. Unbeknownst to us the tiny lead slugs were penetrating the phone book, the wall, and entering my room on the other side. When I went to bed that night, I found a few fragments of lead on my pillow and retraced the steps, amazed at our underestimation.

You could use a M4 carbine for home defense with some Hornady TAP or similar ammunition, which is designed to stop short in walls and things. It would also behoove you to do so with a pistol, regardless of caliber. The bottom line is that, ergonomically, pistols are vastly superior to long arms for home defense.