To the scientist and non-scientist posters here:

Discussion in 'About the Members' started by Green Destiny, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Aye, and that's the key. Whether GreenDestiny is that other former poster or not, unless his behavior changes, he'll walk the same road regardless.
     
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  3. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    Neverfly, that's pretty much where I am too. I would add this though: The pop-science sections in bookstores around the world are bulging with books about physics (in varying levels of complexity) and the inevitable fallout ensues; people read those books, get a visualization and decide it supersedes the actual technical side of the issue. In that kind of melee a proliferation of unhelpful ideas springs up.

    My take on that is this: Models' only value is predictive. Names and delineations are basically conveniences of models. Models that don't predict don't really matter. However, Maxwell wrote his first field equations of electrodynamics less than 200 years ago. Now we can't visualize any non newtonian physics at all usefully. Perhaps one of these [people will in fact find a relationship that has been overlooked. There is no reason to assume that math is the only way to improve our model. Of course, without math, there is no precision to prediction.

    I'll leave it to individuals to make of that what they will.

    And Greendestiny, asking questions is a lot different than making claims.

    just saying.
     
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  5. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    um... yeah. About that sensitivity issue.
     
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  7. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    'Close nit' [sic]? I think I've probably been in the same room as Prom for less than a total of 10 hours and that includes 3~5 hours of seminars given by a bunch of people which happened to include each of us.

    A complete non-sequitor. The fact we think you're posting crap has nothing to do with our own work. Our work is sufficiently original and worthwhile we've both been published. I consider it a high point of my PhD that I wrote a paper entirely on my own, my supervisor had zero input in it.

    You can't defend your position so now you're trying to go on the offensive. Too bad Prom and I actually have evidence we're capable physicists. Too bad other people think so enough to actually pay us to do it. Try a different line of insults, one which doesn't backfire so completely.

    Oh no, whatever will we do?

    That'll mean you just won't see people point out your mistakes. Doesn't mean you won't still be mistaken.

    Where did I say I'd stopped learning? In the last 6 months I've done work on half a dozen different areas completely outside the area I did my PhD in. Part of the reason I have my current job is that my employers think I can learn new things quickly and that I have a creative mathematical mind. Some of the stuff I've had to learn I've always wanted to find out about but my research took priority. Other stuff I didn't really like but its still important I understand (damn you probability!!). You'll be hard pressed to find someone in the research community who says learning stops once you get your PhD. The accusation is always from hacks once someone who didn't sleep through school points out their mistakes, its your defence mechanism to try to convince yourself that its okay you suck at science, you have an 'open mind' or you're not hemmed in by the mainstream

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    Funny how none of them get very far....

    Like I said, pick an insult which doesn't backfire.

    Like I just said, my qualifications and my pay cheque say otherwise.

    I'm perfectly polite to people I think deserve it. I was much more polite to you until you turned hack on us. You've just left a comment on my profile page about how I have absolutely no respect for anyone. Its funny how the previous comment on my profile is from you, 2 weeks ago, thanking me for helping you with some information. You had nice things to say about me until I pointed out your work was crap. You're just trying to turn the conversation onto us to avoid acknowledging how you were mistaken on a great many things. Whether or not I have a PhD, whether or not I work in the mainstream, whether or not I have any qualifications in science, the fact remains you have been mistaken on a great many things and you seem unwilling to accept that. I'm mistaken all the time. I've binned months of work when it became clear it wasn't going anywhere or was in error. That's what science involves, correcting the flaws in our current knowledge as best we can. If you can't accept when someone says "You're mistaken" then you will never get anywhere in science as you're incapable of doing it.
     
  8. Green Destiny Banned Banned

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    I did say my fairwells... but alphanumeric, after the way you have treated me, I deserve you one last post.

    '''Close nit' [sic]? I think I've probably been in the same room as Prom for less than a total of 10 hours and that includes 3~5 hours of seminars given by a bunch of people which happened to include each of us.''

    Yes. close nit. Afterall, when Guests opens threads on Clifford Algebra, it's usually you, prom, maybe temur, and perhaps a few more I forget to mention... This is the close nit-idness I speak of. An intellectually-stuck up group on sciforums, a forum mafia, I think the term is, a mafia which turns on the less appreciated.

    ''A complete non-sequitor. The fact we think you're posting crap has nothing to do with our own work. Our work is sufficiently original and worthwhile we've both been published. I consider it a high point of my PhD that I wrote a paper entirely on my own, my supervisor had zero input in it.

    You can't defend your position so now you're trying to go on the offensive. Too bad Prom and I actually have evidence we're capable physicists. Too bad other people think so enough to actually pay us to do it. Try a different line of insults, one which doesn't backfire so completely.''


    yes, turn it back on the crap I post. If you were a teacher... I vaguely remember you saying you have taught, I would fucking hate you to be my teacher. I could just imagine you, moving from student to student, uttering under your breath ''that's crap, and that's crap...'' so much for trying to boost the scientific ego, and even if it was crap, there are other ways to go about it, than acting like a down right, stuck up arse.

    ''Oh no, whatever will we do? ''

    Oh... I don't know...


    ... ... maybe move onto someone else. You're good at that.

    You're quite a decieving little prick. You flout around saying the things you do in the name of science, when really, you should be hosting alongside Jerry Springer. The audience there would love you.

    ''Where did I say I'd stopped learning?''

    You didn't have to.

    You're quick to say I went about the place claiming knowledge on things I didn't actually know *even though I never did*, but the way you prance around like some mathematical genious, perhaps you should take a leaf from your own book. Maybe you lead on to know more than what you know... afterall, you surely cannot be as superior in knowledge in the world. Maybe quite well-adversed on a forum, but I bet you are more or less made of skin and blood like the rest of us.

    Like I just said, my qualifications and my pay cheque say otherwise.

    Not in physics you don't. I recall you saying you worked in mathematics... that's not exactly CERN now is it?

    ''I'm perfectly polite to people I think deserve it. ''

    I'm so very pleased you feel that way your Lordship. Is there anything else the commoners can do for you? Maybe ask a few more questions so you can ridicule them to hell? Maybe get commonsense seaker in, so you can hammer those nails into his hands...?

    I will leave, I should have left, but before I do, here is some advice, if your Lordship allows: Try and be civil to people here. No one wants to learn from someone who only tries to crush their attempts at understanding physics. If you were a modest scientist, you would embrace these individuals in your arms, and show them their errors, but show them in a way so that their interests prevailed, not to be deterred. Just some advice, since you are so handy passing advice yourself.
     
  9. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    still, you're taking alphanumeric too seriously. well said I guess, but lots of people are pompous, self-righteous, pretentious, fat headed assholes who need to constantly bolster their own self-image by trying to emphasize weakness in others. There's no need to believe them.

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  10. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    The reason only a few people reply to a thread on Clifford algebras is that few people ever study Clifford algebras, but given they come up in quantum field theory (you should know this, they are used in the Dirac equation) those of us who've done some QFT know a bit about them. Its not a conspiracy we talk about what we're familiar with and sometimes a high level topic can be a refreshing change from the more common high school level subjects.

    Are we supposed to be ashamed of the fact we know certain things? This is a maths and physics forum, we studied maths and physics, hence we'll know a little about a lot of things talked about here. For those who studied history or religion or politics they'll likely spend more time in other forums here or on other forums on the internet. You come to a physics forum and see something sinister in the fact some people here know a fair bit of physics?! Are you surprised there are doctors in hospitals?

    The attitude I have with you is entirely different from the attitude I have with students. Firstly they know if they make shit up they'll fail so they have a reason to be honest. Secondly when they are face to face with someone they don't have the internet to run to to find out facts they claim they know but don't. Thirdly if someone in my class didn't give a shit they didn't turn up, so the people who turned up demonstrated they at least partly wanted to learn.

    When someone makes it clear they want to learn I've got plenty of time for them. I've typed up lecture notes for people, I've stayed behind after class to explain things to someone struggling, I would always make it known if anyone was struggling just to come to my office and ask for some help.

    Your attitude is not even close to the people I've taught and hence I don't treat you the same. If you only want to lie and make up BS then I see no reason to be pleasant to you. This isn't a teacher-pupil relationship, we're all posters on a forum and if you can't accept correction on anything don't expect to be treated like an adult because you aren't acting like one. Your completely unsupported hypothesising about my teaching style to people who care about science, unlike yourself, demonstrates that.

    I can't help but feel you're clutching at straws when it comes to the insults.

    Ah, so you simply made up a conclusion based on nothing but your biased assumption, thus demonstrating my point about your attitude being the opposite of what you'd need to have in order to do any kind of viable science.

    It's a common thing, hacks think that I think I know everything. As I just said, this is a physics forum and I've studied physics and maths so if I didn't know something about certain topics there'd be a problem! On subjects I know little about I don't say much, as there's no point in me just making stuff up or just repeating a Wikipedia article. Hence in threads I reply to I tend to be talking about stuff I have a fair bit of experience with. This doesn't mean I think I know everything or that I don't need to learn anything new, only that I stick to what I know when it comes to explaining things to people, as people generally should. Outside of what I know I know very little, as that's a tautology. I continue to expand the range of things I know a bit about, aka learning. The fact the limits of what you know in physics are well within my area of knowledge doesn't mean your conclusion is valid.

    Can you provide examples? Why would I need to lie, as a PhD in string theory generally does the job of saying "I know some complicated stuff" well enough. Like I said, this is a maths and physics forum, I do those as my day job and have for most of a decade now. Languages, music, art etc I'm pretty weak on and so I don't go into forums on those areas. This isn't complicated logic.

    Where did I claim otherwise? You seem to be thinking that because I'm confident in areas I work on, particularly things like quantum mechanics, that I think myself somehow superior on all counts. No, I'm confident that I'm decent at some areas of physics and maths. Outside of that very small area I'll happily defer to others or just say "I don't know". You seem to be imagining an awful lot about me which you have no basis for other than the fact you don't like I didn't like the crap you've been peddling. Stop blaming or insulting others for the fact your 'work' was rubbished, try looking a little closer to home. I didn't make you not understand square roots or differentiation or vectors or dimensions or tensors or anything else you've been corrected on. You typed posts on things you didn't understand, no one made you do that.

    It might seem like a black and white separation to you, as they are different subjects in school, but out in the real world there's a lot of blurred overlap. Mathematics is everywhere in physics and some of the most pure of mathematicians can apply their work to physics. For instance, Terence Tao has a Fields medal for pure mathematics and is extremely well versed in formal mathematics and yet he writes papers on things from fluid mechanics to new ways to minimise sensor bandwidth. Athanassios Fokas does highly abstract analysis into PDEs yet it finds applications in CAT and PET scans, he's written numerous papers on back scattering. The mathematics of differential geometry can be applied to signal processing. The mathematics of variational principles can be applied to artificial intelligence. Galois theory is used to design hard drive formats! I know people who have PhDs in some extremely abstract areas of mathematics who have applied their knowledge to many real world problems. I learnt Hilbert spaces for the purposes of doing quantum mechanics but it can also be used in machine learning. The recent attempted proof of P vs NP came from the research arm of HP Labs. Microsoft has a quantum computer research group doing the mathematics of create quantum computers from quantum knots!

    Your comment demonstrates your naive view of what amounts to working in mathematics research. In the vast majority of cases you can't draw a line between 'mathematics' and 'physics', as often to find a novel solution to a physical problem you must find a novel mathematical approach. But then judging by your attitude you'll never experience that. It's quite a good feeling when you crack a problem no one else has.

    You've made it quite clear you don't want correction. Intellectual dishonesty annoys me and you have it in spades. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
     
  11. Green Destiny Banned Banned

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    ''The reason only a few people reply to a thread on Clifford algebras is that few people ever study Clifford algebras, but given they come up in quantum field theory (you should know this, they are used in the Dirac equation) those of us who've done some QFT know a bit about them.''

    I think you should change that sentance to ''A reason'' rather ''The reason''. Otherwise, you'll sound disingenuous - afterall, I am not just talking about the subject you guys and garls are talking about... I am referring to the general attitude given to me recently in face of evidence on my behalf, demosntrating a completely different view on which this forum mafia has presented itself as against me. I am quite sure RJBeery gave a good example from two different posters and myself in a single thread, and pretty much showed their antics in a new light, one perhaps only before this, I thought was the only one who recognized.

    ''Are we supposed to be ashamed of the fact we know certain things?''

    Again, twisting my words; you're good at that.

    I appreciate and look up to individuals who know more than me, and are wishing to explain things in more detail and help me learn ~ but a bit of deja vu is hitting me... I am sure there was a thread on tensors by some lad who gave an opportunity to someone to express their detailed knowledge on the subject... but somewhere down the line, the mafia agents were able to turn it round back on that person and make it a thread about their knowledge instead. Sad story, you should look it uo sometime.

    ''You come to a physics forum and see something sinister in the fact some people here know a fair bit of physics?! Are you surprised there are doctors in hospitals?''

    Whatever you say.

    ''The attitude I have with you is entirely different from the attitude I have with students. Firstly they know if they make shit up they'll fail''

    Yes... this will be in a university won't it... probably a prestigous university in England I presume... would it be even bolder to presume Cambridge?

    Either way, let's test this theory of yours. Did I, or Did I not create a thread in psuedoscience admitting ''I will need help with my calculus?'' Instead, this was a free pass to completely degrade me verbally? Comments like ''things 10 years olds can do'' is highly innapropriate. If you ever do come across a student then, who hasn't fully covered calculus, I hope you don't treat them the way you did with me. Is that more to your liking?

    ''When someone makes it clear they want to learn I've got plenty of time for them.''

    I said I wanted to learn in the pet theory thread. Your natural response to this will be ''but you didn't want to learn'' - if that be the case, look back at the thread. I tolerated I think maybe 2 posts... reason why was they were generally not bad, then suddenly you turned into a Hyde character. I've explained to you before, as a bit of advice - you want us retrobrates to learn something from you, atleast do it civily, so that they will want to learn from you. If you don't, how can you blame them, or me for that matter?

    ''Your attitude is not even close to the people I've taught and hence I don't treat you the same.''

    Except, whilst you may think I fail to admit when being wrong, you fail to see the errors of your own ways. You cannot treat one student different to another. Not in the real world. If a teacher did this, they would be found to be descriminative and probably loose their jobs.

    ''I can't help but feel you're clutching at straws when it comes to the insults.''

    Protons have three quarks. This sentance has three words : Pot. Kettle. Black.

    ''Ah, so you simply made up a conclusion based on nothing but your biased assumption,

    Assumption would be the incorrect word. I think facts is more appropriate.

    ''It's a common thing, hacks think that I think I know everything.''

    You must have mis-read. I certainly by far do not think you know everything. I think however there is a subliminal power trip going on for you, where you would like to think you do. Afterall, your attention here is not to expand your own horizons... the greater deal of your time here is spent on trying to correct true spammers on the errors of their ways when you know fine well you will not achieve it. The grass is greener on the other side, and much more rewarding internally, if you could go one day on sciforums without even attempting to degrade another poster here.

    ''Can you provide examples? Why would I need to lie, as a PhD in string theory generally does the job of saying "I know some complicated stuff" well enough. Like I said, this is a maths and physics forum, I do those as my day job and have for most of a decade now. Languages, music, art etc I'm pretty weak on and so I don't go into forums on those areas. This isn't complicated logic.''

    Example... You just gave me one. I think, in general, there is atleast two days a week you end up on a speil about what you are doing, how complicated your work is, how advanced your knowledge is and why people should not argue with you to even mentioning the word PhD - do you see DH do that? I would take a safe bet and say he has one, probably in some related rocket science area, but he hasn't mentioned it once. I bet if there was a computer programme which could successfuly track down words, your use of PhD in reference to yourself would be quite large.

    ''Where did I claim otherwise?''

    You didn't. I said that.

    ''It might seem like a black and white separation to you, as they are different subjects in school, but out in the real world there's a lot of blurred overlap.''

    I am a very realistic person, and I happen to know that many insitutions do overlap the subjects. I doubt yours does though. I might be proven wrong, but hey, ''that's life''.

    ''You've made it quite clear you don't want correction.''

    Complete and utter fabricational lie. No way am I impervious to mistakes, and I AM quite happy to be corrected once I review the evidence myself. I have retracted several statements since I have been here. A relevent one would be when you asked me about the proton sea, and assumed I must have been completely ignorant as to say I was not wrong. Remember that? Maybe... but what must have slipped your mind was I also told you I was completely and utterly wrong in reply, saying you were unconditionally correct. Don't spam us, or me with your patent lies.

    If you truely think your efforts here to certain people shows the bredth of your magnaminity for the forum, then I assure you sir, the present is completely hollow inside.
     
  12. Green Destiny Banned Banned

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    And that's me. I actually seriously mean it this time.
     
  13. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    You're back tracking and making excuses. Clifford algebras are fairly advanced stuff and unlike you most people don't pretend to know things they don't, hence such threads get posts mostly from certain people. Plenty of threads don't get replies from the people you mentioned or do and they aren't taken off course.

    The threads where people like you get slated tend to be those where its clear the poster is talking out of their arse. RJBerry has had that happen a few times too. And calling things a 'forum mafia' is little more than an attempt to try and blame other people for the fact you behave in a particular way. By saying "Oh you're a mafia" you try to shift the blame.

    Yes, it would be bold because you're wrong.

    You started a thread in Pseudo talking about the Dirac equation and I politely asked you to explain what precisely your 'work' involved and you didn't provide any details. I politely told you you should stick to the simple stuff. You then started another thread about electromagnetism and your 'pet theory' and I was a little firmer about how I saw you to be wasting your time. You didn't want to hear it, despite the thread title asking for advice and you threw a hissy fit.

    I have had students who in their first QM homework wrote stuff about black holes and electrons orbiting them. I wrote politely on the sheet they should stick to getting the basics down first, as its a long way before they cover that stuff. One even came to my office to talk about it and after about 15 minutes discussion he realised he should slow down a bit. He wanted to do the advanced stuff but was a little too keen, fortunately he realised he had to do things properly. You demonstrated otherwise. No one immediately jumped down your throat, you've been posting here for months, with hundreds of posts, so you can't make the claim people beat you up immediately for talking about advanced subjects. It was only after you went 'cranky' that people treated you differently.

    And I have seen a student who just wouldn't listen and write nonsense for their homework. Last I heard he was repeating his second year and expected to fail again. He was offered help, he was talked to by his tutor, he didn't listen.

    Other people manage to stay on my nice side without too much trouble. QuarkHead regularly asks questions on advanced topics which sometimes, and I'm sure he'll agree, he struggles with. I don't jump down his throat because I know he is honestly wanting to understand things and he's spending a lot of time doing other areas of maths.

    You seem to be having trouble accepting that its your behaviour that got me riled. Asking questions on advanced topics I don't have a problem with, provided you're not just deluding yourself about what you're doing. QH doesn't. You do.

    Discrimination is things like "I won't teach you because you're black" or "I don't like Polish people". I'm not discriminating in that sense. I'm saying that if someone doesn't want to learn then I have no wish to teach them. Being polite doesn't seem to help with you and other hacks. I am not the person who made you pretend to understand things you don't. I'm not the person who made you deluded about working with the Dirac equation. I am not the person who made you talk about electromagnetism when you can't do calculus. You're the person who did all of that and who didn't want to hear you should do the basics before going into the advanced material. A teacher cannot force a student to learn and you clearly don't want to listen to anything which involves you accepting you're not able to do the advanced material right now.

    But good try at accusing me of 'discrimination', when in fact I am just saying "If someone doesn't want to learn I don't wish to teach them". I'm not employed to teach people on this forum, so its entirely my own choice who I help or not.

    So much for those 'facts' you talked about, I said precisely the opposite and explained your mistaken view and yet you say that. Its one thing to be accidentally mistaken but now you're just flat out lying.

    Actually I haven't said what I've been doing for the last couple of month, as I have been out of university since May. I've done quite a lot of different things, related to that whole "maths applied to physics" thing I had to explain to you, but I haven't said what.

    Like I said, I'm not in an 'institution', I'm out in the real world and out in the real world there's a lot of technological problems which can be solved with mathematics. Even in academia there's a lot of overlap in maths and physics but outside of academia there's no distinction or separation, if a solution to a problem requires lots of maths or lots of physics then so be it, no one cares what it would be classified if it were taught in university, only that you can do it.

    Your 'corrections' are pointless because the problem is not little things like "What do you view a hole in the Dirac sea as" but that you're considering the Dirac sea at all, when you can't do basic calculus. That's the comment which you didn't want to hear, you don't want to accept you're jumping ahead and doing material you can't understand. The reason why you have had to be told you're wrong so often is because you skipped over the basics which you should know to do the advanced stuff. People could help you again and again and again on the advanced stuff but if you don't learn the basics stuff you'd forever have to be helped on the advanced material every single step of the way. And your attitude of "If no one says anything about it it must be right" was a stupid one, it was just another example of your self deluding mind set.
     
  14. Guest254 Valued Senior Member

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    Does not compute, since same poster, Green Destiny, posts this:
    in which he is talking about functional calculus on the prolongation of some Jet bundle over a Riemannian (or possibly pseudo-Riemannian) manifold.

    Years of training to go from calculus [which poster needs help with] to this advanced topic: ~7yrs (A-Levels, Mathematics Degree, Masters Degree, several years post-graduate training).

    Please, explain.
     
  15. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    Guest, if you don't let at least one person post between you and me it'll seem like we're in some kind of 'mafia'!! And quoting him pretending to know material almost a decade beyond his abilities is just beating him up! I mean, quoting his own posts to highlight inconsistencies in his claims, that's just mean! Only really mean people use facts to support their position!
     
  16. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Well, mean people and scientists.
     
  17. Guest254 Valued Senior Member

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    I know, I know, but subtlety has never been my strong point.
     
  18. Guest254 Valued Senior Member

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    Ack - I forgot I just posted with my rpenner account! The walls of my sockpuppet factory are crumbling around me!
     
  19. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously? Law and Order: UK -- what are you Britons thinking?
     
  20. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    No, I just posted with my Rpenner sock account. You only post with your Rpenner sock puppet account when I'm you. Or is it that you only post with my Rpenner sock puppet account when you're me? Which one of us is Prometheus again?
     
  21. Guest254 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm Spartacus?
     
  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    That is so true.

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    But for God's sake don't mess with Alphanumeric.
    He'll pull the shank out of his chest, laugh, and then pin you to the ceiling with it.
    Check this thread out http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=103686&highlight=luminiferous
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
  23. funkstar ratsknuf Valued Senior Member

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    For fuck's sake, will some merciful moderator please move this attention-whoring thread to a more appropriate subforum?
     

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