To the boys who breathed their last at Omaha and Utah

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Oxygen, Jun 6, 2000.

  1. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    Today is a special day for me. Today is D-Day. Today marks the 56th anniversary of the invasion of Normandy. I'll spare you the poetry of the patriotism, the legends of individual glory, because it's hard to get poetic about images of young men whose bodies washed ashore, lifeless, never to see home again. The less fortunate sank in the waters under the weight of their own "survival" gear. They never even got to see the dreaded enemy they were fighting, and many never even got shot. They simply drowned. There is nothing glorious about death.

    America was not the only invading force on that day, but the records show that we drew the worst beach to land on, Omaha. That, and the fact that I am an American gives me special cause to single out "our boys". I try to imagine being in the first wave. It's a terrible thought, being the first piece of meat thrown to hungry dogs. They faced this prospect not with nerves of steel and grim determination, but with the same terror that you or I would. "Our boys" were no different from us, and they went anyway. Maybe they bought into the propaganda, maybe they just didn't know any better. At any rate, they did something that I doubt many people have the courage to do. They flung themselves headlong into the face of the enemy. Then they died, collapsing to the beach not in Hollywood poses but more like rag dolls dropped by a careless child.

    I see these images in my history books, and I hear first-hand accounts from the fading memories of the survivors, case-hardened men of steel who were brought to tears by the scene in "Saving Private Ryan" where the boy with no lower jaw is trying to call for "mama". It's hard to say "It's just a movie" when a 78 year old man is weeping openly, recalling a day when it wasn't "just a movie".

    I am grateful to all those who went, to all those who fought and preserved our freedom. Without their victories, great and small, people like us, who dare to voice our opinions and ideas openly, who dare to discuss anything, and who shake our fists and say "this government sucks", would surely have died in prison long before now.

    On behalf of the Internet generation and free dissidents everywhere, Thank You.
     
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  3. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, let's honor their sacrifice by safeguarding liberty.

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    It's all very large.
     
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  5. patriotSTORM Registered Senior Member

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    54
    Heh, are you guys so blind to see that it was not only America fighting Nazi Germany? European countries and Russia and countless other nations payed just as high, if not a higher price (Russia lost 8% it's population).

    Sorry, I know you're post wasn't purposefully ignoring, but just keep in mind they rest of the world, eh?

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    To all those that fought - American or other- we remember.

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    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who' if we wins' knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid sould who know neither victory nor defeat."
    -"The Man in the Arena"
     
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  7. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    I should have nodded more noticably. There are three people I've ever met from another country who remembered WW2. One is a friend of mine who, at age 5, had been unable to get out London during the Blitz. "Life Is Beautiful" kind of reminded me of her because her father kept her and her brother calm by getting them to pretend that they were playing hide-and-seek with the Germans. The next was my senior year math teacher who, coincidentally, was 5 years old and trapped in Berlin when the bombs came down. She had almost grown up hating the Allies until the Berlin Airlift. The third was an Australian fellow who entertained us at his restaurant with some of the funniest war stories. He preferred not to tell the painful ones, because he lost a lot of friends to the Japanese.

    A former neighbor of mine told me of her father's days in the Waffen SS. A soldier is a soldier, no matter what uniform he wears, and we amazed each other with second-hand tales of daily army life.

    America was certainly not the only force on the field, and there's plenty of blood from patriots of other lands to underscore that. I am reminded of an epitaph on the headstone of a young RAF pilot:
    Value your freedom, remember their sacrifice, and be prepared to follow in their footsteps if needed.
     
  8. Peter Dolan Registered Senior Member

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    Duty does call many a person to service, be it to one's King or to one's Country. So many have been called never to return. I always had a tough time of it to draw the lines around those who died in combat i.e. that this soldier was the enemy and this soldier wasn't. If he died in service to his country, then he has gone above and beyond what "mere duty" calls for. Yes, I tend to blur the lines a little, to see things in shades of grey. Duty called and my relatives answered the call and served their respective countries, both Axis and Allied. Suffice it to say that my Axis kin went above and beyond what "mere duty" called for.
     
  9. Plato Registered Senior Member

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    366
    I think the entire concept of nations and states is flawed. The system makes exesses as wars inevitable and wars are just about the most stupidest of activities humans are capable of.
    Concepts like patriotism and glory are all the more dispicable since they tend to justify something that cannot be justified.
    The only remedy, but I realise this is something for the very long term, is to abolish all nations and have 1 single world government. Call it a ferderation, call it a confederation. I want 1 supreme organ that mediates possible wars in a peaceful way.
    The united nations are, with all their good intentions, not the ultimate answer since they can only interfere if nations invite them. What we must have is the possiblity to enter a growing conflict and smother it before it bursts out.

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    I err, therefore I exist !
     
  10. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    The concept of patriotism doesn't necessarily lead to blind fury. Henry David Thoreau considered himself quite patriotic and exhibitted this patriotism in his work by encouraging people not to blindly follow the dictates of governments or crowds in general. He believed that the best way to celebrate your freedom was to start by thinking for yourself and questioning convention. The Flower Children of the 60s, at least the ones I have met, believed that it was in America's best interests to get out of Vietnam while we could. These people were as patriotic as Nathan Hale and Commodore Decatur. As a nation is made up of it's people, Ghandi could be called a patriot.

    Patriotism is only dangerous when mixed with the volatile emotions of reactionism.

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    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.
     
  11. Plato Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    366
    Oxygen,

    You are right if you use Patriotism in this way but I would rather call it one sided humanism if used like this : respect for other humans of the same nation.
    Applied to the Vietnam war the reasoning would be like : because the flower power students thought it wastfull for American soldiers to go and loose their life in a rather dubious war, they thought it would be better to stop the war and pull out of Vietnam.
    This is very good but it could be better : they could also have considered the aspect of the Vietnamese people and soldiers. From the standpoint of the Vietnamese it seemed like they were defending themselves against a foreign oppressive power, first the French and then the Americans. Looking at it this way it made even more sense for the Americans to back down.

    Take nineteenth century Europe. It was a time when nationalism was rising and the power of the kings was deminishing in favour of the power of the people. For this to happen the sacral power that had always been the prerogative of the kings (they had their power from God himself) had to shift towards the people. In order to do this the Nation as an abstract concept had to become something almost tangible real. This is a time when national anthems where composed, nations got their flags and got their legends. The downside was that French, English, Germans, Belgians, ... were beginning to think of themselves as fundamentally different from each other. It also lead to a situation where conflicts of states automatically involved enimity between members of different nations. The end result was the First World War !
    WWI meant the death of the dynastic royal regimes that had stoot for stability in Europe. All the crowned heads of the nations involved in WWI were distant or close relatives, there was no reactionism at that time (fascism is a fenomenon of the twenties) only pure patriotism. The duty of the people to die for their country, for their nation.
    Patriotism had its good points, it got rid of the royalty, which was a form of government that was medieval in nature and therefor outdated. But it had also its downsides : WWI. Our new mission for the next century is try to bend this patriotism into some form of global patriotism : humanism !

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    I err, therefore I exist !
     
  12. patriotSTORM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    54
    I will contadict my own alias by saying that patriotism is bad. Patriotism leads people to blindly believing in their own country. I prefer to say that "don't believe in your country, believe in what your country stands for".

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    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who' if we wins' knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid sould who know neither victory nor defeat."
    -"The Man in the Arena"
     
  13. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    I always preferred the more complete version of a saying teh Navy tried to shove down my throat. I got gigged every time I finished it for them, but it was a gigging I took with honor.

    They said:"My country, right or wrong."

    I replied: "My country, right or wrong. When right, to keep right. When wrong, to make right."

    I believe that is the proper quote from Cmdr. Stephen Decatur. The very idea that a patriot might say "What my country is doing is wrong" and set out to correct the situation was unacceptable to my chain of command. I left the Navy, believing I could better serve my nation in a civilian status.

    Right now, my contribution tends towards helping kids avoid joining gangs and taking up with criminal elements. I'd like to think I've made a difference. I do feel, however, that I am serving my country, and hence my species, by attempting to improve my immediate surroundings.

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    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.
     
  14. dexter ROOT Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    689
    this is esspecially frieghtening for me, i am 14, in 4 years i will be 'draft pick' and i will be throughn into the army (concidering ww111 is right around the corner....... either it will be a long tedious war. or a short, devistaing war, concidering that aliens dont come and use there equivellent of a death star and blast us (unlikily, but possible) and saving ryans privates, was a really good movie, my whole mamily cried, except for me, i was still cought up in the 'sticky boimb' incedent, bt later did i realize the importanmce of that, how slowly, and fast they died, so young and old, short and tall every one different, an individual, and that was jsut taken, it is times liek these i really do hope for a heavan and hell, thoguh it not be of my beileif's it is more than that.....it is of my feelings........

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    when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

    -dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)
     
  15. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    Dex- World War 3 has been "right around the corner" since I was a kid. Modern prophets make it seem like one morning we're all going to wake up next to a mushroom cloud. You'll be past draft age by the time anybody gets around to a new World War.

    As far as the draft goes, don't sweat it. A trick they used to pull in World War 2 was to wait for the draft notice (which inevitably put you in the ground infantry in the Army, which is to say dogfood), then shred the puppy and go to the branch of your choice. You can always claim that the notice must have arrived while you were out doing your duty.

    Once in you'll have the advantage of your generation. Do you remember a time when computers were only available to large corporations? Of course not. You're 14. You grew up with these puppies as part of your heritage. Learn UNIX. Learn NT. Learn code. Most of your commanding officers couldn't program a simple loop, let alone crank out code. They'd most likely stick you a server room that'll give you woodies for the rest of your life with but one assignment: "Make sure none of it goes down."

    And of course I'm sure you'll behave yourself and not write any back-doors for after the war, eh?

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  16. ozarky Registered Senior Member

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    96
    Plato,
    My God, man. You want a one world goverment?
    That is the one thing that I have been preaching against since the United Nations Charter was read in San Francisco in 1945.
    There has been a group of the "super rich", The Illuminati, better known as the Bilderbergs attempting to form a one world goverment since the mid 18th century.
    Jack Kennedy, as president, signed the papers to turn over the United States Military To UN command.
    The League of Nations following WW1 was supposed to form a World Goverment. Thank God the United States did not ratify the charter.

    President Bill Clinton has practilly by-passed Congress in the legislative process by writing what is called Execuative Orders and Presidential Decision Directives. These illegal orders have created the Federal Emergency Managment Agency (FEMA) to become the military arm of the Goverment. They can direct the military in emergency situations, whether real or made up to do the following:

    Executive Order 10995: Federal seizure of all communications media in the United States.
    Executive Order 10997: Federal Seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, private and public.
    Executive Order 10998: Federal seizure of all food supplies and resoures, public and private, and all farms and equipment.
    Executive Order 10999: Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars,trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all hiways, seaports and water ways.
    Executive Order 11000: Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the goverment so desires.
    Executive Order 11001: Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private.
    Executive Order 11002: Empowers the Postmaster General to register all men, women, and children in the United States.
    Executive Order 11003: Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft.
    Executive Order 11004: Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe".
    Executive Order 11005: Federal seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private.
    Executive Order 11051: Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension or economic or financial crisis.

    President Clinton can declare a state of emergency and call for martial law any time he wishes.

    The elitists have control of Europe now thru the European Union. The elitists have control of the money in Europe thru the EURO.

    The one and only thing holding the elitists from taking over the US is the fact that Clinton has not been able to get GUN CONTROL
    passed in congress.

    "We are not going to achive a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money". Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. in Foreign Affairs, July, 1995

    "It is not about gun control, it is about gun confication". Attorney General Janet Reno.

    SMILE IN THE FACE OF ADVERSITY

    command.
     
  17. dexter ROOT Registered Senior Member

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    689
    alright, considering i dont know a lot of code, and i am not tained in other programs or unix, i dont evan have unix, (i dont think) i have no one to teach me (if anyone would offer, i would be grateful) so i am probobly screwed, ambe i will do the clinton, and run away to russia! but i wouldnt wanna do that, i always wanted to be a pilot, but i donno.....

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    when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

    -dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)
     
  18. Plato Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    366
    Ozarky,

    How old are you if you where around and conscious enough to protest in 1945 ? I'd say at least 75.

    Any way, I'm not talking about a centralised government (goodness, no) I'm talking about a confederation just like what is happening in Europe for the moment but on a global scale.

    I don't care about any Illuminati or Bilderbergs or Templers or free macons or any other kind of secret organisation that conspires to grab the power. I'm talking about the people, the masses that live on this globe. I'm talking about pity, compassion and justice, I'm talking about humanism.

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    I err, therefore I exist !
     
  19. Cable Man Registered Senior Member

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    92
    Oxygen:
    Your original comment is praiseworthy. Nationalism is OK. To pay tribute to our men is appropriate and deserved.
     
  20. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    Thank you, CableMan.

    dexter-Code is easy...at least I think it is, but then I started programming in BASIC when I was 11. Drop 666 an e-mail, and he can tell you a bit more about what books would be best and where to get Linux, etc.
     
  21. dexter ROOT Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    689
    i know some code, i mean, i dont know it off the top of my head, but i can copy and paste, though that is cheep, it works. i would be farther along, but my dad gets mad everytime i do something to his computer, like he jsut got it back from the people fixing it, he doesnt trust me to fix it casue my friend and i made a small program, and it didnt do waht it was sposed to, instead of jsut closing your browser, it deleted the file from wich it worked, and i accedentally opend it. but if anyone wants to give me a new computer that i can work on, please contact me. and i am sure my dad would be very happy if you did!
    i also have jsut started to realize what dos is, i can ping people and other little stuff, but thats it.



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    when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

    -dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)

    [This message has been edited by dexter (edited June 23, 2000).]
     
  22. ozarky Registered Senior Member

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    96
    Plato, Good guess, you missed my age a couple of years. The Army told me in 1945 that "I was of age". I was actually happy about going in the service, most of the 18 year old's were at that time. It was "don't let this thing end before I get a shot in". Then you grow up.

    As for this United Nations thing, my Dad put me on to some books about the League of Nations after WWone. It was the same moneied names that are behind the scenes, calling the shots today. My Dad was behind the trenches in the artillery in France in WWone. He told me of the moneied elite that wanted control of the world. That is why he was so happy when the League of Nations failed. About the San Francisco meeting to read the Charter of the United Nations, my Dad said "here we go again". Take a good look around you. These people are deadly serious now.

    I believe the elitists have contrived to build the economy of this nation to a point that the populas is ignorant of the going"s-on behind the scenes in the top levels of Goverment.

    Think about it. There are over six billion human being's on this planet today. The Bilderbergs want no more than three billion human beings on this planet. Many of us are useless weeds, useless eaters in their way of thinking. To reduce the population of this planet, there are plans in place, to get rid of 350,000 people, human beings each and every day untill they have reached the quota.

    The Globe is layed out in sections. There will be no borders as we know them today.
    Forty of the fifty states in this country have re-written their constitution without defining their borders. Can you see just how deep these people have carved their way into our country ? I do not know the plans for the British Isles. There are strong rumors that the Royal Family is buying land in the state of Colorado.

    HA HA SHE CRIED, SHOOK HER WOODEN LEG AND DIED
     

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