To Gun or not to Gun?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Bowser, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Changed my mind about making comment as it probably turn into a non helpful Ping Pong

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  3. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    When I was 16 years old I ran with an East Los Angeles street gang. Guns were not as common in the US back then, so we made our own from pipes, wood, rubber bands and wire. We stole the ammo, called the creations "zip guns". They were terribly inaccurate and lacked any real stopping power, but nobody wanted to get shot with one anyways. For grins, I made up some black powder (the materials were readily available), cast a lead ball or 2 and made a workable muzzle - loading fuse - fired pistol that shot 1/2 inch balls with enough force to bury in a chunk of wood from 100 feet. Next, I packed a bunch of black powder in a small can, wrapped nails and pebbles around that, lit the fuse and ran. Serious shrapnel bomb indeed, and very portable. (Nobody was around for that stuff and I was out in the boondocks.)

    NOTE: Ping pong balls can be used to make bombs too.

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    My point is this: I agree that we humans are top predators, we come equipped to kill if we wish. That is how we got where we are at the top of the food chain. Most folks can't hit the broad side of a barn from 10 feet with a pistol, and very few could make the weapons I noted above. However, if a person in this day and age chooses to kill a bunch of other people without a gun, he or she can do that.

    The second amendment to the US constitution is part and parcel of what being an American means, along with all of the other guarantees in said document. If enough Americans want that changed, it can be changed. Since it is that way though, it is perfectly legal to carry and use a firearm RESPONSIBLY, but you do not have to. There are a number of legitimate, rational reasons either way. Another part of being an American the potential personal power of every individual. Pretty much any American can obtain and pilot a vehicle, obtain guns, chemicals, tools to cut through steel/concrete, explosives, radioactive substances etc etc. If you look hard enough, I am sure that you can get plans to build a nuke. "All of that power, and not a clue how to use it." That is the disconnect - liberty (the freedom to do stuff) should be balanced by responsibility (receiving credit/blame for the results of your actions) to maintain social order and preserve said personal liberties.

    There is indeed truth in the statement that "When guns are illegal, only criminals have guns." Just as with drugs, Prohibition and Interdiction flat - out do not work. The solution to gun crime is the same as it is for drug abuse - intercession from knowledgeable professionals with set goals to achieve with each patient. A study was once done on Indiana death row inmates, in there for murder - all of them. Something else they all shared was easily discernible organic brain damage from severe and repeated child abuse when they were young. Violence is a potential we all share, but it is our individual life circumstances that dictate whether we become killers or not. Eliminating child abuse would be a good start to creating a truly civilized society. Education and guaranteeing some basic life needs also helps, as would creating a real level playing field without discrimination based on race, religion, gender, sexual preferences etc. Legalizing all drugs, prostitution, and other such normal human activities would take the "crime" out of them and reduce the violence, as well as improving the health of all involved.

    Further, creating/supporting rule - based venues for the expression of violence and openly guiding violent individuals into those trades would channel those with a stronger propensity for such violence to express that without harming society. Boxing, kickboxing, cage fighting, racing, hockey, football, soccer etc all allow humans to express their violent urges in a manner not harmful to society.
     
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  5. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

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    All charming stuff, but to me there is also a disconnect because there are vast numbers of people who are not responsible. The disconnect is the denial that there is a difference between what should happen and what does actually happen. Children get shot because of guns lying around; idiots with a grievance go wild with assault weapons; muggers shoot people for the sake of stealing 10 bucks; etc. I can sort of see the argument for having a gun for self-defence, but why the hell should anybody be able to buy an assault rifle?
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    imho: The overriding reason the 95% of Americans who favor sensible gun control can't get together and obtain it - all perfectly consistent with the 2nd Amendment and what-all - is the creation of political gridlock on the matter by (and this is very rare) irrational and threatening behavior on "both sides".

    And in that situation, the unfortunate bias of blame has to go to the guardians of rationality and adult political discourse - the liberals. They have a clear advantage in both power and sense, but a large fraction lack self-awareness of the hazards they represent. They are perfectly correct in their alarm over the undue influence of the guncrazy backed by evil wealth with a power agenda. That does not excuse their carelessness with respect to fact and recommendation, recourse to dishonest and manipulative rhetoric concealing a heedless agenda of abuse and imposition on their part - a rhetoric and agenda even more threatening for being apparently unconscious, even foolish in its naivety with respect to governmental force.
     
  8. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

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    define assault rifle
    the difference between this AR15 and this .223 hunting rifle is: the amount of plastic; (one "looks" dangerous to those who aren't familiar with firearms)

    that's it
    both fire the exact same round
    both fire semi-auto
    both can have a sh*tload of options added to them for whatever reason
    both can be modified to full auto depending on the ability of the user and or the cash, and the willingness to violate the law

    point is: there is no difference between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle except the fear the term elicits from those who are ignorant of firearms

    another point that is relevant:
    the US Gov't wanted to take away my .50 cal because they consider it an anti-aircraft weapon - they told me that there was no need for anyone to own a .50 cal... sounds sensible to you?
    here is a picture of one that looks identical to it
     
  9. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Wasn't there a .50 Desert Eagle? Are they still legally available? Friggin' hand cannon...

    Under what pretext would they try to seize your (apparently) black powder long gun? Was / is it original or reproduction?
     
  10. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

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    yep. still available. beast of a gun too

    only shot one once back in the day when they first came out
    still laugh my butt off at the meme's too
    https://media.makeameme.org/created/50-caliber-handgun.jpg

    idiot neighbor - filed a false complaint with the locals

    said my wolves killed his animals

    my Tennessee Long Rifle is a Pedersoli reproduction, my Hawken is a Thompson Center Repro
     
  11. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    Uh.....isn't that the current Conservative Republican regime you are talking about? Sure looks that way on the tv news.

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  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    OK I see no picture.
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    hahahahaha
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Back to GUN

    Close to 40 years ago, a woman who spent the night with me left a bullet on the nightstand.
    I thought: Gee that's kinky.
    This morning, I was organizing my brass and ammo, and refound that bullet.
    Upon closer examination, I noticed a dimple in the primer.
    Curious that, as the bullet had it's lead.
    So, plyers in hand, I removed the lead, and found the bullet to be hollow, with a tiny amount of (really old)pot in the bottom.
    It would seem that the woman had been carrying around a couple of small pot pipe's worth or marijuana in that bullet.

    Which set me to thinking.
    Now, I'm really trying to remember more about her.
    What was her name? What did she look like? What positions did she like?
    Did we smoke pot before or after sex, or at all?
    (sigh)

    The bullet(it's a .45) has stamping:
    R A 6 4
    I think that that means it was made by remington arms in 1964
    Your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  15. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    You could hide a lot more weed in a .45-70 cartridge. They might look at you funny if you had a .50 BMG round on your keychain, though. Bulky, too.
     
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  16. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

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    rest your cursor over the word "here" in the sentence, there is a link to a similar Pedersoli flintlock

    the text above it also has linked pics for the .223 and AR
    no offense meant but... it took you this long to notice the dimpled primer?
    when i read that i had thoughts of a different nature, to tell the truth (like: misfired shot)

    glad to know it wasn't anything like that though


    maybe not, Dr_Toad - it's getting right popular around here-about... especially for ex-service members

    i had one feller try to sell me a BMG fob not two weeks ago
     
  17. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    OK, let's step it up. How about a 20mm anti-tank round for a Carl Gustav m42? You couldn't even carry a dummy into a courthouse, 'cause it's big enough to be used as a bludgeon.

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  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    OK--"here" did it --------the guy who thought that an anti aircraft weapon is an idiot.

    I did not/do not own a 45, so i just chucked it into a drawer and forgot about it.

    Yeh, me too------------so I was a tad more'n extra careful when removing the bullet.
    ...............................................
    wow---45-70, shades of Quigley----
    .......................
    meanwhile, I've a skinned and gutted lamb/yearling hanging in the shop. We're gonna dig a pit, and build a fire(or 2 or 3) build up a good bed of coals, and bury it overnight under coals, then feast tomorrow. I ain't never done this before so it should be interesting.
     
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  19. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Quibble. Quigley used a .45-110 Shiloh Sharps. Ouch. I don't really want to fire that one.

    Lordy, I'm thinking of banana leaves to cover, and oranges, onions and plantains spiced with chile, cinnamon and paprika to go with the lamb in the pit! Let us know what you did and how it turned out, please?

    Now I wanna go dig a hole...
     
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  20. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

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    true that.
    it does sound like a cannon to the uninitiated though

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    that is just so weird to me... but then again, people think it's weird that i never go anywhere without a knife
    and i mean i don't go anywhere without it

    when i lived in Greece i enjoyed a lamb slowly roasted for Easter... i don't think i've ever had it in a pit though
    it's a hell of a way to cook a pig though!
    ya got me salivatin' ... ya gotta let me know how that turns out, eh?

    LMFAO

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    i've fired 150 grains FF with a MiniƩ ball
    does that count?

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    jk
    LOL
     
  21. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    We might pt that question to one of the gun channels on YouTube, hm?

    A .45-70 kicks like a 12-gauge, but sharper, so a .45-110 would be like a 10-bore for kick?
     
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  22. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    When he came back from Viet Nam, a friend gifted me a fired machine gun bullet that he carried while he was there. You can pull the (full metal jacket) slug off and find the lead has been removed and replaced with a roach clip. It now abides right here on my desk next to a small statue of Hotei under my NEC monitor.

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  23. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

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    LOL
    i don't know too many BP rifles that will handle that much powder
    a Hawken should be able to handle a double charge (FF) without blowing up the barrel but i don't know if they're made to the same standard anymore (Baird, John D "Hawken Rifles", 1971)
    I've put 200FF in my Hawken with a round ball, and it sure do kick like a stung mule - i don't usually put in more than 120FF though as i rarely shoot farther than 200 meters with it


    it's been a long time but i fired a .45-110 (or was it .45-120? might have been the 120, but i disremember)
    ... i think i would rather shoot the 10 gauge
     
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