To Gun or not to Gun?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Bowser, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. Oystein Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    There was that incident a couple of years ago in Lower Slobovia where the guy came into the packed movie theater with a ball-peen hammer and killed 27 people before a guy with a concealed hammer permit took out his claw hammer and killed the murderer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  2. Guest Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    169
    No, I'm not changing the goalposts, I merely said if there were no guns, people would not get shot. If you wish to argue that the statement is incorrect because one can get shot with weapons which are not guns, you are welcome, but it is obvious what I meant.

    I am also cross with myself that I should bother to engage with a citizen of the USA about guns (which you presumably are). It's rather like arguing with creationists - pointless.
     
    pjdude1219 and James R like this.
  4. Guest Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Oystein Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Good man! Not many people are aware of the facts -- like you are. It's true though. Every single citizen of this country is a gun-nut. Didn't you know that it's mandatory? When a baby is born here (or brought here) it is given a derringer with a neat little holster that attaches to the diaper. Just in case. Children must carry hand-guns to school or they cannot be promoted. If you are caught by the ubiquitous hand-gun police more than 10 ft from your gun, it's off to jail for you. Yes, we work, eat, drink, breathe, crap, and piss with our dear gun close by. Long live the NRA!!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  6. Guest Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    DrKrettin
    bows shoot. nailguns shoot. slingshots shoot. get the point yet?
    no?

    look... here it is in a nutshell

    a gun is a tool.
    period.

    the problem isn't the gun. it's the user.
    the user committed the crime. not the gun.
    a gun is an inanimate object with no volition and can't kill without direct application of energy by a user

    only to you
    1- creationists believe in a pseudoscience and religion: not facts

    2- you presented no facts that can be argued, only opinion, and as such only requires opinion to refute. however, i utilised facts with references

    3- if you post in a gun topic you're likely to discuss the topic with an american - but as i've stated before, cultures really can't be compared because of their subjective nature

    4- a tool is inanimate and as such the problem still isn't the gun: it's the person behind the gun, which is where all the problems lie WRT tool use for violence. Similarly, this "is obvious what I meant" above regarding the topic

    5- regardless of my nationality, i've also lived in far, far more countries than most anyone. this applies to your own country if it's European (or the UK).
    ROTFLMFAO
    Oystein
    you made me spit tea all over the wife!
     
  8. Oystein Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    I'd be a dead man if I did that to my wife, no matter what the reason.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  9. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    it was just a flesh wound... 'tis but a scratch
     
  10. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,255
    At least we can agree on something here.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Self defense is a right as well as an option.
     
    ajanta and Truck Captain Stumpy like this.
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,428
    in other words other sources provide the answer to the question why and you can't handle that. the fact people like you only want to use those numbers that don't answer the most important question to problem solving is telling. but than again like most pro gun people your almost causual dishonest about the topic using emotion over fact
     
  12. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,428
    that your lying?
     
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    well, it is more hard work to do mass killings using a knife so we know what that means. on that note, why don't we just issue everyone a machine gun.
     
  14. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,255
    ......or put poison in the Cool Aide? Steal a big truck and point it at a crowd? Fill a van with drums of fertilizer and kerosene and park in in front of a federal building? Set off bombs during a marathon? Go through a village with machetes killing anything that moves?

    We are getting a tad disingenuous here now, trying to make our points, aren't we? You boys do get an "A" for effort though.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,361
    Very very good

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I hadn't heard that before

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Has it ever occurred to those nuts in their shells

    if none of them had the TOOL

    they would not have been able to use it???

    PERIOD

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    These tasks take more creativity, effort and planning. A gun just needs ammo and you are off and running. it's a portable appliance.
     
  17. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    1- all other sources utilise the exact same original sources, and those are linked above. the reason is simple: no one else collects the data because no one else has the means to collect the data
    2- other sources aren't accepted because almost every other source out there will cherry pick what they think is relevant data while ignoring relevant data. of course, even the above sources will make a clear statement that you can't extrapolate certain information from them simply because there is no way to collect all the relevant information... but that isn't what your sources are claiming.
    you are getting emotional and attempting to project



    nonsensical argument. for starters, humans have been violent since they used rocks or fists to kill each other

    also - it is illegal for felons to own firearms, correct?
    so why do we still find felons with firearms?

    maybe it's because people who tend to not obey the law don't give a sh*t about a ban?
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,361
    What is nonsensical about saying if someone does not have a gun they could not use it???

    Yes people have been violent towards others and killed others by other means

    Guns are just a tool right

    So so much EASIER to use a tool than hands or rocks right?

    Yes illegal for felons to own firearms is correct

    Any thoughts as to why?

    Could it be that that felons are most likely to commit crimes and kill people in the process and guns make it EASY for them threaten and kill while doing the crime

    You find felons for that reason - guns make it EASY for them threaten and kill while doing the crime

    Its the TOOL of choice for the felons trade

    That as well

    Still does not negate

    If someone does not have a gun (tool) they can't use a gun (tool) to kill

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Just an observation: if you
    1) muddle all firearms together, in particular handguns and rifles and shotguns, in one category of "guns", and
    2) talk about how no one can shoot anyone if there is no gun available, as a desirable status and an argument against the too-casual dismissal of firearms as merely "tools" and therefore not of special concern;

    then:
    3) when somebody points out that you are arguing for massive gun confiscation in the US, the government taking people's guns away, all of them, they are correct. You are.
     
  20. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,361
    If you are implying I am arguing for massive gun confiscation

    I AM NOT

    It would be a solution to stopping the large number of people being killed by guns

    But sadly because of the American mind set over guns that solution appears unobtainable

    America seems to have created a problem, along with a blind spot, which as the name suggests cannot see the problem

    Solution?

    Way out of my ability to formulate

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Truck Captain Stumpy The Right Honourable Reverend Truck Captain Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    so long as any gun exists, there will those willing to take the chance of getting arrested to sell it for a profit, and there will be those willing to ignore the laws to own it for their own purpose

    this isn't a fairy-tale where one can just say "no one can own guns anymore because [x] said so"
    making handguns illegal hasn't stopped them from being used or sold anywhere that i'm aware of... so the argument is nonsensical as there is always, always going to be a segment of the populace who will refuse to obey the law

    which brings us back to the rest of it
    how would you prove this?
    more importantly, how would you change this?
    a felon isn't typically made overnight either, though we can't discount that there are numerous first time offenders that fall into the above category of not only first time felons, but that killed simply because it was the easier thing to do...

    problem is, most experienced criminals (and felons) have a long and varied career breaking the law
    will taking guns away from the criminal mindset thus take away the easy option and alleviate the problem?
    it hasn't yet...

    you make it sound so simple... but if that were the case, then regardless of even cultural differences, logic dictates there would be no felonies in places with no guns;

    i can think of numerous examples where this isn't the case in the US alone... and you really can't compare cultures without some additional serious considerations.

    just as a reminder: the authors of the Constitution allowed for the 2nd amendment to insure freedom from tyranny
    it is not only a way to insure the gov't stays "for the people" but also to insure that any invading or tyrannical force is met with resistance from every able bodied and willing defender

    just FYI-my perspective has always been the same, and it's simple too:
    1- no person who has ever advocated for gun removal has ever even considered the core problem : the inherent violence in humans
    2- the US already has some excellent laws but they're not enforced fully, for whatever reason
    3- until the core problem of violence is addressed, and the existing laws are enforced, then disarming the law abiding citizen simply makes targets out of people
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,361
    Way way WAY to much to break down and respond to so I am not even going to try

    To mangle Forest Gump ' That all I have to say '

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. deepslate Registered Member

    Messages:
    60
    We should not use a gun as much as possible but I agree with the others than in worst cases we can have an option to use guns for self defense.
     

Share This Page