Time Travelers, not Aliens?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by austere, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. zonabi free thinker Registered Senior Member

    sitting here at work i realized something incredible. let me share (ill ktry to keep it short and simple):

    i am a graphic designer, and so i work on Ads, and Photos, etc. My main program is Adobe Photoshop. Now in this program (for those not familiar) there is a *neat* tool called the "History Pallet". Inside this History Pallet it has EVERY SINGLE THING you have done to your picture, all Listed in chronological order, the top being the beggining.
    Now, u might say "so what?" well here's the "so what" ~
    with the history pallet, i can go back to a previous action i did, and it will momentarilly REVERT to that point. It will show me how the picture was at that point on my screen. NOW- heres the good part. From THAT POINT, I CAN CREATE A NEW DOCUMENT FROM THAT STATE OF THE PICTURE. Now i have the picture TWICE... but listen to this- The original Picture Still contains all of the commands up to the current point (before we backed up) - while the new document has started its own history pallet starting from the duplicated state.

    now, ignore that i even said this was adobe photoshop, and it sounds exactly like parrallel universes in which we are discussing.

    Basically what im trying to say is that going back in time creates alternate timelines, but i feel they are STILL closely connected, such as the voltage analogy KMG brought to our attention.

    kmg - the voltage comparison is VERY WORTHY of this discussion. Good Observation there...

    so to try and tackle this thread, i think using comparisons is the only way to kind of 'imagine' what would happen in these situations.
    the only things i have concluded are
    -traveling back in time would cause you to dissapear from your present.
    -traveling back in time would cause history to be re-written.
    -if this is possible, then u must accept the fact that if indeed backwards time travel is possible, it therefore must create alternate 'universes' or 'timelines', simple because we are still here right now.

    now, things i have conjured up in my mind are as follows:
    - humans arent meant to travel back in time- they will get lost for good.
    - spiritual beings may be able to transverse in time, for 2 main reasons:
    a) they are nothing physical, and need not follow the laws of energy/mass or whatever
    b) since theyre NOT physical, they cannot interfere with the past(or present or future, for that matter) directly, only in-directly
    - there are many paths of time, or 'timeline' as kmg so nicely put it
    a) there is a main Line, i would say it extends forward in a pretty straight line.
    b) this line is made up of everyones life (everyone's "time") , and it is intertwined very carefully.
    c) if one were to travel back in time, their "thread" so to speak would rip, and unravel, meaning it would start to stray from the main time line "rope".

    now, heres something i just realized while writing that:
    what if, based on my loose analogy, a time traveller went back in time, picture this:
    His thread of time breaks loose from the main timeline, picture a thread of a heavy rope that is stray (much like a split end in hair)
    NOW- where the thread ripped is exactly the point in time when he "jumped in the time machine" (or insert your own ideas there) meaning the point he exited the present.
    LETS SAY you grab this end, the tip of the ripped thread, and you BENT IT BACKWARDS (downwards, if the timeline was going straight up) and bent it back and put it into the main time-line rope at a previous time?

    a revelation i just had... strange... but If i were to accept this idea i just made into a theory, it would seem that it creates one regulation:

    -if a person's thread rips off (he decided to time travel) - it can only be bent backwards, simply because the thread cannot stretch itself to reach a further point in the main time line.

    this is a pickle, because up untill this point i was under the impression that travelling Backward in time was IMPOSSIBLE (for humans), while travelling forward into the future is Possible(for humans).

    but its only an analogy and i shouldnt take it too literal.
    eep! sorry i tried to keep it short!
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  3. kmguru Staff Member

    Well Zonabi, I am glad you are getting it from your Photoshop analogy. If you think about it, let us say that the file you first created can be handed to another artist to have a version for one client. The one you edited going back a few steps and saved it as a new file is for another client after you finish it up.

    Now, let us say, instead of just a Photoshop - it is a Sim-City One that you can create with some variables and store that simulation or let it run in the background saving it as City Two. Then bring up the City One at the point it was saved as City Two and backstep to a position in time and make a change to go forward. Now you have two instances running under a master time line which is the computer clock. The Cities could have their own timeline to speed up or slow down the simulations.

    Now, let us take a step forward. Imagine a human in your City One has been given an attribute to access the program in City two - which is possible since the simulation is running in the same computer. Now there could be interesting interactions....

    There is another issue. Say, the computer is so powerful that the simulated environment has people who can talk or interface like real people. They can in effect talk to you directly (you are the God to them) and could interact between the two cities.

    You could have all kinds of fun scenarios here.....
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  5. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

    The photoshop history tool is a great analogy, I must say, it really does put a completely different perspective on time travel. It provokes this question for me; does the universe have a memory. However if the universe can have a memory, why can't it be intelligent? If it is intelligent; then why can't it be God.

    If we accept the universe is intelligent, and has an infinite memory of all events from the birth of the universe to now, then the universe could easily take the pointer of time back to a previous event, or indeed continue the original time line, but begin another timeline from a event in the past.

    Speculation, speculation, speculation, till our hairs go white. I accept the universe can be anything, and everything -but what it is to us, should be logical and provable, we cannot prove it has a memory, nor do we know if we ever will. So, yes, let's speculate, but speculate about what we know may be attainable and what can be supported with valid arguments.
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  7. kmguru Staff Member

    So, now we have zonabi and crazymikey on the same page. Wow! Great minds think alike. Now, what I am going to tell you will blow your mind. I have been tinkering about this concept for the last 15 years. I think, we can effect the change for our personal benefit as long as it supports the greater objective of the simulation or creation.

    In order to do that, first you have to be aware of the framework as to how you fit in and then focus on changing your activity with respect to the overall program or framework. "seek and ye shall find it" literally works within the context of the framework. That is the theme Matrix presented us and great religions also have presented hidden in the books.

    So, one does not have to wait for the hairs to go white. Use it to your advantage.
  8. Greco Registered Senior Member

    There's a way to travel backward in time but only as an observer. You simply find a way to travel faster than light wether by spaceship or wormhole. All you have to do is overtake the light waves that just left earth. As you get close to the speed of light things on earth will look to be slowing down. As you get even with the speed of light events will freeze and then when you go faster than the speed of light events on earth will be going backwards.

    Oh yah you'll need a good pair of binoculars.
  9. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

    I've wondered about that, if it is possible to see images from the past, if travel faster than the speed of light in space. Is that really possible, ligtht carrying our images into space?
  10. Greco Registered Senior Member

    According to Einstein we can not travel faster than the speed of light but who knows someone smarter may find a way.

    Light reflected off events on earth are speeding away from us like a a long film. Speeding along that film strip you'll be seeing scene after scene of earth's past.
  11. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

    Einstein did not say, it is not possible to travel faster than the speed of light. He says it is possible in certain conditions.
  12. zonabi free thinker Registered Senior Member

    here's my trick question:
    if you go faster than the speed of light, would u be able to see anything?
    would you have any color at all? or any 'image' so to speak?

    if light bouncing off objects and entering your eye is what produces images, then wouldnt you render yourself completely dark or blank if you were going faster than light? because the light is slower, it hasnt had a chance to catch up and bounce of you (or any object?) and enter your eye- you are going faster than light!

    does this make any sense? i keep thinking about it.
  13. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

    Zonabi, let me try and answer that.

    When we go faster than the speed of sound, do we stop hearing? Wouldn't there be light speeding ahead of you too. Wouldn't there be light inside the craft.
  14. zira Registered Senior Member

    >Fun to speculate, but as difficult to prove as an alien theory, I guess.

    Not so difficult to prove. Why not make DNA analysis when living "aliens" or bodies are found.
    Even if the external aspects of these beings are quite different from humans, they can be descendants if, let's say 90-95% of DNA match.
    You can suppose that this evolution is due to the fact that earth living conditions change radically in the future.

    Humans and apes do also diverge by 10% of their DNA only, and they look quite differently.

    Other idea: Time Travel not for materia or people, but for information like radio or TV signal...

    As time travel, for example by using a singularity, happens under extreme conditions (gravity, pressure, magnetic fields...?) it's not so obvious that a living organism can survive it.

    So it could be more simple and secure to send information, why not a TV or radio signal into the future, or into the past...?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  15. bandwidthbandit Registered Senior Member

    I don't beleive in "alien visitors' , flying saucers, or alien abductions or of any that. But just for discussion sake, if the claims about "visitors" were in any way true could it be they come another dimension or parallel universe? I'm no physcist but I've heard string theory supports the idea of multiple dimensions. Perhaps instead of being aliens from other planets or time travelers they are from another dimension and have some how learned to enter our dimension?
  16. kmguru Staff Member

    They would still be called "aliens". Even Mexicans are called aliens in USA.....

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    My personal belief is that they are either from our future or from another dimension where the travel takes place quickly.

    In either case a breakthrough in science is necessary to even suggest that.
  17. zonabi free thinker Registered Senior Member

    i believe the answer is:
    e) all of the above

    perhaps similar humanoid aliens are from our future (i doubt this one)
    perhaps the greys are from another distant planet
    perhaps spirits and ghosts are from another dimension

    yes- radio waves and television channel waves do travel through time as they get lost in space.
    perhaps this is how aliens were able to find us ?
    perhaps this is a way to find aliens !
    (only drawback is i doubt alien life has media like ours ~ tv, radio, not to mention the fact that their technology could be far different from our current stuff)
    but the fact remains, signals and waves we send out do in fact travel thru time in space, and could definetely be retrieved by another life form, if they have good enough technology to catch it.
  18. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

    And perhaps, they are from our own dimension, and transit through another dimension, as a short-cut, to get to us.

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