Time Cystral Physicists?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by rr6, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. rr6 Banned Banned

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    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/04/time-crystals/

    Ground State =
    ..."The state of least possible energy in a physical system, as of elementary particles. Also called ground level."....

    Zero-point does not exist, except in the macro-micro infinite non-occupied space( < > ) that is beyond/meta and embraces--- does not contain/restrain ---our finite occupied space( O ) called Universe ergo <O> is the texticon for non-occupied space embracing occupied space.

    Occupied space = energy/motion/dynamic etc......

    The ground state of and atom also means for it to be stable i.e. an equal number of protons to electrons i.e. the charge is balanced between these two.

    In chemistry, an ion is unstable atom i.e. when there is atom that has one or more electrons than the number of protons or vice versa.

    When talking gravitational spacetime, we have moved into the ultra-micro scales where we envision a quasi-physical existence i.e. there is motion and quanta at scales far beyond that of which humans or any creature of Universe will ever attain/observe.

    Lee Smolin states, that, it would take particle accelerator the size of our solar system to quantize/observer/detect a graviton from gravitational spacetime.


    God/"U"niverse;

    00) metaphysically abstract concepts of mind/intellect ex cosmic laws/priniciples,
    ----------------------------

    01) non-occupied space---macro-micro infinite----embraces the following,

    02) gravitational spacetime-- presumed to be spin-3 boson ---ergo ultra-micro occupied space,
    ...act as bufffer-zone between non-occupied space and physica/energy as follows....,

    03) physical/energy as fermions and bosons of occupied space

    gravitational spacetime is the closet we come to a pure energy concept.

    The words physical/energy is a generalized terms that are inclusive of all fermions and bosons. Often times we people use the term energy the specifically mean EMRadiation( photonic ).

    The term radio-activity has nothing to do with radio's ergo it is a left-over term from early days that still gets used loosely i.e.in more generalized terms.

    The correct term is ionizing radiation i.e. forms of EMagnetic radiation or highly energetic fermions that cause atoms to become ions i.e. radiating particle that creates unstable atoms in their local area ex alpha( think plutonium ),

    or that will pass through thinner layers of matter ex high speed beta/electron particles,

    or that will pass thicker layers of matter ex x-rays( high-frequency photons ).
    r6
     
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  3. Fednis48 Registered Senior Member

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    I was excited upon seeing the title of this thread, since I recently read a paper on time crystals and was interested to hear what people had to say. Then I saw it was a post from rr6...
     
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  5. rr6 Banned Banned

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    < ( O ) >

    To further clarify, zero-point, has nothing to do with any "points" withing a finite physical/energy Universe.

    The word radio-activity has nothing to do with radios yet it is still used mistakenly.

    Zero-point as used by most mean close to being no temperature and almost and non-occupied space...ha ha that is like saying...she was just a wee bit pregnant.

    A true zero-point is represented by the following texticon...< >... as is also called true non-occupied space so and not to be confused with occupied space of public bathroom on plane, train or bus that has the sign that slides or has a back light when occupied by a human.

    A bathroom space is occupied by air molecules, EMRadiations, neutrinos etc.......before and after the non-occupied sign is activated.

    This is simple rational logic that most 10 years olds can comprehend.

    r6
     
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  7. Secret Registered Senior Member

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    I suppose you are talking about this?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-time_crystal

    It's really interesting but I still yet to understand how it works
     
  8. Fednis48 Registered Senior Member

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    Yep, that's the stuff!

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    The Wikipedia article you linked is surprisingly clear and concise; good find. To add my own understanding to it, a normal crystal is a structure that is spatially periodic in its ground state. (For instance, a salt crystal consists of alternating sodium and chlorine ions with regular spacing.) Because of this, a crystal breaks spatial translation symmetry. The laws of physics generally don't care where you are, but if there's a crystal present to impose a lattice on space, your location relative to that lattice suddenly matters. We can easily generalize this concept to a "time crystal" that is temporally periodic, and so breaks time-translation symmetry. A swinging pendulum with no loss is a simple example of a temporally periodic system. The catch, though, is that a crystal has to be periodic in its ground state, and things like pendulums only oscillate once they've been excited. In fact, since a system's Hamiltonian drives its evolution in time, the ground state of any Hamiltonian should by definition not evolve in time, which would make a time crystal a contradiction. But recent literature is abuzz with smart people claiming otherwise, so I'd love to learn more.
     
  9. Secret Registered Senior Member

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    So basically it is once thought that the ground state of a Hamiltonian (Sum of kinectic and potential energies of the system) does not vary with time but these researchers have went through a theoretical calculation and found otherwise, that the Hamiltonian oscillates periodically with time

    I also heard about a sciencedaily or NewScientist mention of the time crystal research some months ago, saying since everything is in its ground state in a time crystal, [it is independent of the 2nd law of thermodynamics and] can function even in extreme scenarios such as the heat death of the universe

    After reading about this on that day, I started to think about that very old question again: What is time? (Because now you have entropy out of the equation, thus no thermodynamic arrow to tell the arrow of time)

    [] is probably one of my interpretations when reading aforementioned sources
     
  10. Fednis48 Registered Senior Member

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    That's a really interesting question, actually. How would we define time in a universe with constant entropy? My first guess would be that we'd need to switch over to a picture more akin to general relativity, where time and space are relative but the spacetime coordinate is absolute. In such a picture, we still wouldn't be able to specify the direction of time when entropy is constant, but we could at least reasonably define time as one of the universe's four dimensions. Analyzing a quantum mechanical construct in the context of relativity is beyond the scope of current science, though, so we might have to wait a while for any rigorous answer.
     
  11. rr6 Banned Banned

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    Time = Occupied Space--Concept Beyond Occupied Space tho Complementary.

    02) Time/frequency/motion is related only to occupied space. O

    01) Concepts( mind/intelligence ) are beyond occupied space, yet complementary to occupied space.

    00) Concepts( mind/intelligence ) are beyond non-occupied space yet akin to non-occupied space.

    There may be the exist the potential for infinite set of relative concepts, tho we have only a finite set of absolute cosmic laws/principles.

    Synergy is one of those concepts/scenarios that appears to leave the door open to infinite relative concepts.

    Synergy is the unpredictable resultant of two physical/energy interacting things or even perhaps a resulstant of two concepts/scenarios overlayed.

    1 triangle + 1 triangle = 4 triangle is both a conceptually, and modelable via physical/energy, synergetic resultant?

    Time = motion yet local time is finite, within context of eternal existence of occupied space--- aka our finite Universe ---.

    Brian Green likes to consider 2D slices of our finite Universe ergo 2D slices of time/motion/frequency-occupied space.

    Time = VVV, WWW, ^v^v, ***, ()()().

    Also, as with most if not alll other words and concepts time may duality of metaphysical( concept/mind/intelligence ) time, and the latter above physical frequency time.

    r6
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    rr6:

    I remind you that you are posting in one of the Science subforums.

    Please stop wasting space.
     
  13. rr6 Banned Banned

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    James, If stated something in error, then will need to more specific.

    Start with first line. I don't see any errors there, in regards to time. Please come back when you have found incorrect statement by.

    r6
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    rr6:

    Ok. Just this once.

    You have not defined "occupied space", nor said how time, frequency and motion are "related to" it. And what kind of motion?

    This is nonsense.

    In what sense are concepts "beyond" occupied space, and what is occupied space anyway?

    And in what sense are they "complementary"? What does that mean? And how is "akin" different to "complementary"?

    There is also potential for Pink spotted pixes to exist, but your speculation is meaningless.

    1 triangle + 1 triangle = 4 triangle is both a conceptually, and modelable via physical/energy, synergetic resultant?[/quote]

    1 + 1 = 4?

    What have triangles got to do with it?

    How does physical/energy come into the triangles thing?

    Time does not equal motion. That is nonsense.

    What is "local time"?

    What does it mean for time to be "finite"?

    What is "eternal existence of occupied space", and how is it possible if time is finite?

    Is "occupied space" the same as "our finite universe", or different?

    Where? Please cite where Brian Green considers that.

    Meaningless symbology.

    This isn't even a proper sentence.

    I look forward to your answers to my questions.
     
  15. rr6 Banned Banned

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    Definning Words--- Seeking A Shared Concept/Idea/Mind/Intelligence--Mind Melding-

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    Hi James, I looked forward to your answering one( the initial ) my questions posed to you in our last interaction yet, no reply.


    James,

    1) I wasn't aware that posters are required to attach a "definition" to every word or set of two words( or more ) used in conjunction when posting in sub-forum of Sci-forum. Seems a little ridiculus have a definition attached to every word or two words etc....

    2) I rather doubt most of the posters in any sub-forums of Science-forum actually do that frequent attachment of definitions with their posting

    3) If you want to know something you should ask first me, shoot thte "nonsense" from the mouth later. imho.

    4) so James, since you have no idea what "occupied space" means I have to question your sincereity of heart--- like so many of the many trolls around here ----that said, I have explained this( "occupied space" ) clearly in other threads here at sci-forum sincefirst day( or first week

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    )of my arrival and/or when encouraged to do so, or not encouraged to do so,

    4a) lets presume your of sincere heart with me, and really have no idea what the word "occupied" means nor what the word "space means, ergo, lets start by getting yourself a dictionary( and see if there are various possible definitions for these words, and how they can be used.

    Here I've done one of them for you, and in defining "space" they assume you/me/etc the reader, knows what all the words in the definition mean ex "unoccupied" is a word within the definition of the word "spac"e, at least as this particular site from which I harvested the definition.

    ..."space
    /spās/
    Noun
    A continuous area or expanse that is free, available, or unoccupied: "he backed out of the parking space".".....

    So James, so yo now have a beginners grasp of what the word "space"means?

    Now you may not understand this James( wouldn't surprise me

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    ) but words may have many differrent meanings for differrent context or concepts

    In the above given definition of "space" we are mean't to use our minds/intelligence to grasp the concept of a "space" and some mode of transporation that via the given ex "he backed out of the parking space" i.e. he/she/you/me were had our vechicle was occuping/occupied a parking "space".

    Once we move the vechicle from that "space" the "space" is not considered to be "non-occupied"/un-occupied. Maybe that is where you got confused, i.e. I used the word and "non-occupied" and in the definition above they used the word "unoccupied". No sinificant differrence, but then again I'm not a colledge graduate teaching grammar etc to other college students.

    The man who invented the "non-occupied" and occupied signs for public bathrooms also help Steve Jobs invent the mouse( think computer ).

    Ok, so James, even tho the unoccupied/non-occupied space of parking space or public restroom space is empty, some of us know that stated space is not truly empty/non-occupied/unoccupied i.e. there is air molecules, EMRadiation, neutrinos, etc operating/existing within those so called spaces.

    Beyond the Earth there is no air-molecules the so called empty space/outer space is occupied with EMRadiation, netrinos etc...

    Ok so lets see now if you were able to understand most of the above perhaps your ready to use your mind/intelligence to grasp the concept of a truly emty space aka non-occupied space, or perhaps its ok to use the word unoccupied space to express the same concept of a space that is not occupied by any physical/energy or quasi-physical

    H,mm that takes care of definning the two word set of "non-occupied" space James. Maybe its best I stop there and see if your mind/intelligence is able to track these relatively simple concepts. If you can understand grasp differrent aspects and ways of interpreting the words "non-occupied space", i will be happy to continue defining and explaining the other words you asked about, within the context of how my intended meanings.

    No need to go there yet, of it your not going to be of a sincere heart begining with this "non-occupied space" meaning(s).

    R6

    JR..."This is nonsense.

    In what sense are concepts "beyond" occupied space, and what is occupied space anyway?

    And in what sense are they "complementary"? What does that mean? And how is "akin" different to "complementary"?

    There is also potential for Pink spotted pixes to exist, but your speculation is meaningless.

    1 triangle + 1 triangle = 4 triangle is both a conceptually, and modelable via physical/energy, synergetic resultant?[/quote]

    1 + 1 = 4?

    What have triangles got to do with it?

    How does physical/energy come into the triangles thing?

    Time does not equal motion. That is nonsense.

    What is "local time"?

    What does it mean for time to be "finite"?

    What is "eternal existence of occupied space", and how is it possible if time is finite?



    Where? Please cite where Brian Green considers that.



    Meaningless symbology.



    This isn't even a proper sentence.

    I look forward to your answers to my questions.[/QUOTE]
     
  16. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    How can you write so much and say so little. So what is unoccupied space? Is it space with no cars or space with no one in a bathroom?
     
  17. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

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    this thread is ingenuitive and playful.

    here I present a playful equation for unoccupied space. 5+5=10

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    rr6-perhaps you will think it is cute

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  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    rr6:

    You managed to answer the first question I asked you. Now, what about all the others?
     
  19. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    unaccopied space is no shit in the toilet.
     
  20. rr6 Banned Banned

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    Time Defined Dictionary Plus( + ) Others

    Hi James R, Yes "occupied space" is our observed finite Universe and aspects we do not observe. I had defined "occupied space" before you asked and in many other posts in Sci-forum--- where the exact same ole trolls have, and continue too drool drivel onto anything I've ever stated ---- and now appear to have defined it again, via and association to a dictionary definition to help you understand.

    Thx for asking. This kind of attitude helps to seperate you from being a troll or having troll-like behaviour(s). imho You are the first or second person to actually ask for any kind of clarification in regards to "occupied vs non-occupied space".

    Trolls always shoot from the hip and rarely ask questions sooner or later..

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    sad ) lack of integrity. imho

    I may have already explained this in this thread, if not, then plenty of other ones at Sci-forums. First off James R, you have to remmember that most--- if not all --words in the dictionary have two primary aspects; first I will start with a web dictionary definition for reference;

    https://www.google.com/search?q=def...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

    .."time /tīm/ Noun
    The indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.
    Verb---Plan, schedule, or arrange when (something) should happen or be done: "the first race is timed for 11:15"."

    Here above in definition of time, read "existence"--- to be associated with the following clarifiers physical/energy/occupied space "existence" --- and "events in the past, present, and future to be regarded as the whole" and here that definition is to also be associated with physical/energy/occupied. space etc....

    1) metaphysical aspect of time as conceptual mind/intelligence---ex mathematics i.e. we conceive of frequency of events--- includes geometry frequencies of subdivision of a 1D linear line, 2D polygon or 3D polyhedron ---that is conceptually estimated to take so many minutes( time ) or hours( time ) to physically draw on paper.

    ...1a) see above dictionary definition.. a conceptual "plan, schedule arrange "the first race is timed for 11:15"."

    2) physical time is the implementation of frequency of events as EMRadiation, sound/sonic-waves, ocean/water-waves, hand-waving, etc.....ergo all motion has an associated frequency--- some call vibration ---and energy/physical = motion = dynamic frequency of events that do work aka expend energy/physical.

    ..2a) So see the dictionary above in definition of "time" , read "existence"--- to be associated with the following clarifiers physical/energy/occupied space "existence" --- and "events in the past, present, and future to be regarded as the whole" and here that definition is to also be associated with physical/energy/occupied. space etc....

    In a common sense rationally logical way that I have laid out in other posts at Sci-forum.

    1) Presuming your truly satisfied that an "occupied space" is physical/energy--- leaving out considerations of gravity for the moment here ---then I believe that we live in such finite occupied space/physical/energy Universe that exists overtime and is observed in discrete quantum amounts/quantities aka particles i.e. have a finite time of existence in their specific forms( fermionic or bosonic ) integral pattern integrity wholes, that have a temperature, if not also in many cases a color, a spin etc....i..e attributes we commonly associate with physical/energy stuff( somethings ).

    2) Then we can try to grasp the word metaphysical and its association to being beyond the above finite occupied space called Universe.

    Meta = "beyond" and is greek word or prefix or derivative of both.

    That said now tell me James, what is the temperature, color spin that is associated with the 2nd law of thermodynamics states, that...energy/physical cannot be created nor destroyed....?

    James, there is plenty of people out there who commonly associate the word metaphysical with conceptual mind/intelligence. Mind/intelligence discovers cosmic laws/principles that are not physical/energetic/occupied space. We do see cosmic laws floating around in our finite physical/energy Universe and astronauts go out there and come back to say.... we saw cosmic laws written in extraterrestrial space.

    If you need dictionary definitions or examples of metaphysical conceptual mind/intelligence not physical/energy I will go look for you.


    With out getting you a dictionary defintion james, sufficic it to say, taht, any physical/enerygy/occupied space phenomena/event, has a mathematically complement i.e. for allo physical/energy events of our finite Universe--- and Universe ---there exists a metaphysically conceptual set of mathematics that complements such phenomena/events.

    You need go no further than than this Sci-fourm to find a mutitude of mathematics written out for others to read, ponder and maybe understand if not comprehend if the math is a true expresssion of the physical/energetic event.


    1 + 1 = 4? What have triangles got to do with it?

    Triangles are seen manifested as physical/phenomena and triangles are used in mathematics lots James.
    A triangle is not only the primary stablizing geometry set of Universe, it is the basis for stabalization of any building built by humans, if they want their building to be stable. Ask any carpenter. 90 degree squares are not stable until you apply a diagonal to them. A triangle is three diagonals as an integrated whole.

    James, in addition to the consideration of my previous, just above your question above, there is also a word called synergy. It is in the dictionary if you need me to find it for you. Fuller discovered the only known geometrical way to express synergy conceptually/mathematically using two triangles and this may be one of the simplest ways to explain the concept of synergy to a child or adult.

    http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s01/figs/f0801.html

    Time does not equal motion. That is nonsense.

    James, a vector--- magnitude( energy quantity ) and direction( trajectory ) and together has momentum/motion/mojo ---does not exist without time, without a frequency, without temperature, spin etc.....

    Time is inherent to all physcial/energy/occupied space phenomena/events. Please go back and read the dictionary definition I provided you above.

    Sorry james I dont have my original comments in front of me to referencence, what I may have been refering too. I think you need look no further than the few or many indepth disscussions here at Sci-forum to find many references to local frames of reference in regards to relativety ergo speed related to gravity, related to space etc.......

    All physical/energetic/occupied space things--- ex a chair, neutron a person ---have a finite ergo terminal existence. There exists only one thing( physical/energy ) of our finite Universe, that humans do not know durations/period of its existence, and that is a proton i.e. there is no known decay period for a proton.


    Because we only observe finite quantities in finite periods of time, time is observed by us to happen in discrete periods of existence.

    If we live in a finite Universe, then in theory, we could apply a conceptual time period to Universe-- say 2 seconds ---and then add all of the quantum things together to arrive at a finite sum-total.

    However, since we know or believe that, energy/physical/occupied space of our finite Universe cannot be created nor destroyed then our finite Universe exists eternally, as a sum-total of finite events/quanta events, within any given time period. And accept for the proton, as stated above james, humans know all finite things of specific integral patterned set, will decay/come apart and transform into some other integral patterned whole.


    I was recalling what i thought I read in Greens book the Elegant Universe wherein he has some nice photo-like graphics of Universe, that he slices into 2D-like square frames. Like slicing a loaf of bread. I think that book is now buried in boxes somewhere with others since we moved to a new house. Idunno.

    If it is really that critical to you and I can do a web search for the concept, but I'm doubtful I can find his book presented online easily accessable to link too. I dunno.

    Thx for having the decency/integrity to not shoot-from-the-hip and never ask a question.

    I have to date, always made earnest attempts to answer your questions. If you have time--- as a moderator you must be overwhelmed

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    ----then i would love for you to answer my first question to you, in our last interaction in another thread from a few months back.

    r6
     
  21. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

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    What I am writing here is simply in honor of crystal power, and the ability of humans to guide crystal power with intent.

    I once witnessed a friends session with a counselor. The counselor sought to determine the friends biofield, whether the friends biofield was negative or positive.
    The counselor held a crystal hanging perfect from a string above my friend her client (whom was laying on her backside on the floor). The counselor deemed that if the client had a positive biofield the crystal (?as a pendulum) would turn in a circle to her belief. In my opinion her client was more ethically advanced than she was therefore the stringed crystal moved in a circle fashion that held the counselor to deem the client as having a negative biofield. <*> something about a fish named pertch ..........

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    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  22. Layman Totally Internally Reflected Valued Senior Member

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    "In February 2012, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist Frank Wilczek decided to go public with a strange and, he worried, somewhat embarrassing idea. Impossible as it seemed, Wilczek had developed an apparent proof of “time crystals” — physical structures that move in a repeating pattern, like minute hands rounding clocks, without expending energy or ever winding down."

    I think the embarrassing part would be when they say that it is not possible via their experiment, when crystals are used to keep time in electronics from their natural vibrations that do not require power. That is why you can still have your computer keep time even if it has not been plugged in to power or the internet. We would all be working on fully operational "experiment" of it being applied right now.

    I didn't know there was already a thread dedicated to this topic when I made one recently I just came across a similar website myself that mentions it.
     
  23. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Do you know that your computer contains a lithium battery, which is what keeps the date time function operational. Oh, you didn't know? Well now you do.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CR2032_battery
     

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