# Tide turning on Circumcision, Push to circumcise all male infants

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by madanthonywayne, Aug 24, 2009.

1. ### Yellow JacketRegistered Senior Member

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198
You would like me to rationalize it to make you look better. I had my reasons and don't regret them. Does that make me a bad mother? Nope. As far as being strapped down, perhaps they fibbed to me so it wouldn't upset me.

Have you ever seen how they do xrays on the lungs on an infant? I find that more upsetting, yet allowed it. It was necessary for them to get the xray. In order to put a heart monitor on my child during delivery, they actually SCREW the monitor to the head. Yet I had to allow it to ensure safety for my son. If I felt that it was more socially acceptable, felt it was cleaner, that there were benefits to my kids having a circumcision, then so be it. I do not need to rationalize it for you really. I do not regret it.

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3. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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Well I hear if your pray real hard cthulhu will jump out of your enemies toilet and eat them! Anecdotal evidence is worth squat.

Some men don't want to deal with the hassle of cleaning it like that, ergo a circumcision.

You don't need to make such assuming responses

I heard it on NPR yesterday, it was like a 20 second blurb, also there is a thread about it on this forum, its funny.

I'll teach you this skill, its fun, go back one page, open a "find" bar and type in "piercing" see what hits you get on the page, then go back another page, repeat.

What reason does it need? If a parent wants to do a circumcision, what ever, if they want to do an ear peircing, what ever, if they want to do a superfluous tonsillectomy, what ever.

Last edited: Sep 29, 2010

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5. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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Look, I don't think it's a big deal, really I don't, it certainly doesn't make you a bad mother no matter what reason you did it for. Being good mother = HUGE job for years. Decision about circumcision = just one decision out of 100s of others you will make along the way.

But

Your son would have been happy with his dick had you left it alone.
There are many hundreds of million European men who will assure you that this is the case and so will their women.

The fact is men who have been circumcised don't know what they are missing and so of course don't miss what they never had but by the same token adult men who aren't circumcised at birth almost never get circumcised by choice, so it's pretty clear that IF the child had grown up to be able to make the choice they would almost for sure kept their foreskin.

Arthur

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7. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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There's not one man in a million who got a circumcision as an adult to save the hassle of cleaning their dick.

Arthur

8. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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LOL! You would be surprised, many men have foreskins that aren't properly retractable and get all sort of problems from lack of cleaning, urinating, etc.

How would you know? For all you know he would have got Phimosis.

That a good theory, how do we test it? Oh I know, statistical studies comparing circumcises and non-circumcises men!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_effects_of_circumcision#Summary_of_research_findings
And the results are that they aren't missing much if anything! Usually no difference in sexual performance, feeling ,etc.

Your logic is clearly erroneous because how would they know what they would lose until after they got the surgery? No, adult men usually don't do it because no one wants to have elective surgery on their junk unless its for a clearly necessary reason!

Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
9. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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7,829
BS BS BS

Not according to the literature. Adult circumcision is not at all common.

Arthur

10. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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Never said nor implied it was common. Oh and you replied after I made some edits so, just want to make sure you don't miss my previous comments.

11. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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7,829
So your claim that MANY MEN... blah blah blah is CLEARLY false.

If you don't circumcise your kid he will have a VERY HIGH probability of being very happy with his dick, particularly when he gets older and finds out how well it works.

Arthur

12. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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There is 3.5 billion men, even a few hundred thousand would be "many", I did not say "most" now did I?

Sure chances are he won't mind, as for how well it works again studies show that it probably will perform the same either way. As for how he will feel about his dick will be mostly psychological and based on the praise or insults of his partners.

13. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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7,829
No, when compared to 3.5 Billion men a few hundred thousand would NOT be many.

His partners will love his dick either way, so why cut the foreskin off?

Arthur

14. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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18,505
So if I put a few hundred thousand men before you would you say that "few"? clearly we use are words differently.

Sure if his partners are the life time soul mate types, but if there the "wonk up next to after the party" type, nothing will stop them from stating an honest unbiased opinion.

15. ### Yellow JacketRegistered Senior Member

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198

You made my day. I smiled and cracked a chuckle. Well said.

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16. ### John99BannedBanned

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22,046
The opoint is that it can become more common. When i was younger i just thought not being circumcised was because the person was poor and couldnt afford to have it done or there was no hosital. That was the conclusion i drew because it was never explained to me.

17. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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1,289
THE DIRECTOR'S CUT.

http://www.roger-moore.com/eilat2009.htm

Sir Roger to help Israeli group fight AIDS in Africa

Copyright © Jerusalem Post - 24 February 2010

Sir Roger Moore has donated the fee he earns from appearing at the fourth International Eilat Chamber Music Festival to a UNICEF program where Israeli expertise is used in training doctors to perform male circumcision as a way of reducing AIDS transmission in Africa.

Sir Roger Moore, was narrating Saint Saens' orchestral character piece Carnival of the Animals at the festival, now under way at the Herod's Forum hotel.

Some 80 musicians from around the world are taking part, performing 14 concerts in six days. Master classes are also being held.

Since 1991, Sir Roger Moore has been a UNICEF "goodwill ambassador" promoting women's and children's health. He was inspired to work for UNICEF by the late actress Audrey Hepburn, herself a "goodwill ambassador," after being deeply moved by India's poverty while filming a movie there.

In a phone interview with The Jerusalem Post, Sir Roger said he had a growing interest in the importance of health and disease prevention, and said his visit was meant to promote HIV awareness and education.

"Prevention is the best cure of disease," he added.

He disclosed that he himself had been circumcised at the initiative of his parents when he was eight.

"It was the unkindest cut of all," he joked. "But really, it was for hygienic reasons. My two sons [now 42 and 35] have been circumcised as well. They have never complained."

In the spring of 2007, the World Health Organization, UNAIDS and UNICEF recognized "compelling evidence" that adult male circumcision was an "additional important intervention" that could reduce the risk of HIV transmission.

There are several biological explanations as to why circumcision reduces the risk of infection.

Removal of the foreskin minimizes the ability of the AIDS virus to penetrate the skin of the penis.

In addition, Langerhans cells and other special immunological bodies are located on the underside of the foreskin and are targeted by the virus. It may also be that tiny lacerations on the inner surface of the foreskin during sex allow the AIDS virus easier entry.

Sixteen months ago, a three-member Israeli medical delegation traveled to Swaziland to teach local surgeons how to circumcise men.

The first of three such missions to Africa - teams have also traveled to Kenya and Zambia, and will soon go to Uganda - Swaziland was chosen to launch the campaign because its population had a very low male circumcision rate and a 40 percent rate of HIV infection - among the world's highest.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates and his wife Melinda have, through their family foundation, donated $18 million to fund circumcision among adult men in Kenya to fight the spread of HIV. Sir Roger Moore said he had met Bill and Melinda Gates at the UN and had been very impressed by their philanthropy to fight infectious diseases. He added that until recently, he had been largely unaware of the role that circumcision can have in preventing the spread of AIDS. "I have since read up about the disease a lot, and I appreciate Israel's input in prevention," he said. The actor has visited African countries devastated by AIDS and said he hoped a vaccine would soon be available. In the meantime, abstention, safe sex, male circumcision and anti-retroviral drugs were the only hope, he said. Scientific studies have shown that male circumcision in sub-Saharan Africa could prevent 5.7 million new cases of HIV infection and three million deaths over the next two decades. Male circumcision is also thought to reduce the prevalence of cervical cancer. Public health education experts at JAIP have warned that African men and their female partners should not develop a "false sense of security" and engage is high-risk sexual behaviors that could neutralize the protection offered by circumcision. Together with experts from UN organizations, they say that male circumcision should always be considered part of a comprehensive HIV prevention package that includes HIV testing and counselling services, treatment for sexually transmitted infections, the promotion of safer sex practices, and the provision of condoms and diaphragms, with instruction as to their correct and consistent use. Sir Roger arrived in Israel with his wife, Kristina Tholstrup. It is her first visit to the country and his first in four decades. "Although I received an open letter from some organization advising me not to visit Israel, I didn't pay attention," he said, adding that he recommends visiting and already hopes to return. He was amazed at how the country - especially its capital - has grown and developed. He added that he had fond memories of a personal tour of Jerusalem he had been given by its late mayor, Teddy Kollek, and was amazed this time around by the view of the Old City. 18. ### TrooperSecular SanityValued Senior Member Messages: 1,784 Sorry, Arthur, but$800 thousand dollars is somewhat of a hassle. Wasn’t there a topic in here about a new study that proves men smarter than women? It seems like they should be able to figure out how to wash the damn thing. If not, snip-snip…:jason:

I’m a little confused on this one. Was the stimulus money supposed to simulate our economy? What exactly are we stimulating here?

Feds Spent \$800,000 on African Genital-Washing Program

19. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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7,829
Naw, women are so smart they threw the test so the men would conclude they were smarter.

I'd say good personal hygiene is just like keeping your breath fresh and your nails trimmed, ya gotta do em all if you want to be a good lover.

20. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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1,289
If woman, coming after man, is not smarter and more advanced than man - then evolution's core premise dies. However, the truth is they both emerged simultainiously, then split asunder, and now forever seeking to be enjoined again, only to split again and battle over asset spoils.

21. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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15,998
look and ask about a lot of penises do you?

22. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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7,829
Nah, cleaning doesn't hurt nor take any time so no reason to go through that much pain.

It's called LOGIC.

Try it sometime.

Arthur

23. ### IamJosephBannedBanned

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1,289
Cleanliness is only a by-product here. Circumsizion predates the Hebrew bible, and was a means of executing a contract in ancient times, thus it was used as the mark of a covenant [contract]. Another by-product of this ritual is its proof the Hebrew bible authentically describes the contemporary times of its narratives - a unique factor seen throughout the Hebrew writings.

When one thinks about this correctly, how could a contract be made when there was yet no written, worldly laws, courts or offices to record such contracts? The anticipatory forsight of the Hebrew is amazing when one considers how this covenant still stands 4000 years later.

I have no idea why Islam lifted this law in the 6th century, when it was not applicable - because at this time a contract could be recorded. :bugeye: