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Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by NMSquirrel, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Balerion Banned Banned

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    8,596
    James seems to be the one who makes the decisions regarding moderators. He's the most active administrator--and sometimes the only active administrator.

    Tiassa and Bells are the problem. It seems now that Syne is also a problem. (No surprise there) Perhaps if James stopped filling his ranks with people who are so rotten, this place would be a lot better off.

    Clearly, change is in order.
     
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    James to go then.
     
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  5. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    If this was a pirate ship then would you want to mutiny and join forces with Balerion, or consider shopping about for a replacement if one is actually due?

    Balerion has a long sordid history with James and more recently Tiassa/Bells, so his interpretation is biased. In fact I don't think I can remember a time where he wasn't posting something that was critical of the moderators in some form, just looking at his post history suggests someone who is critical of everything, a cynic to boot. I wonder what would happen if he was made "King for a Day".
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Let's disturb James so much that he leaves.
     
  8. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    I'd volunteer to be a mod. Shut the religion foum and ban all the religionists would Be a good start.
     
  9. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    I haven't posted in a while... I have been reading though. James has always been fair, as far as I have seen. Bells is Bells , and Tiassa is Tiassa. Like it or lump it. This is SF. Way too much bitching these days... Everyone is complaining about LG being banned... Funny, no one, aside from wynn ever cared about his posts... WTF happened to this place?
     
  10. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    5,495
    He seems to have appointed some of them, but I don't know if he appointed them all. Nor am I sure whether he (or anyone apart from the owner presumably) has any power and authority to manage, discipline or remove moderators subsequent to their appointment. I've always assumed that James did have that responsibility, that it was his job, but in the recent LG fiasco he wrote several times about how he only had 'one vote'. I don't know what's up with that. Maybe it's just rhetorical and he could knock their heads together easily enough if he wanted to, but chooses not to do it.

    Sciforums' inner workings are even less transparent to outsiders than the mechinations of the North Korean politburo. But it's pretty clear that whatever's happening in there isn't exactly healthy or functional.

    If all the noise surrounding the LG fiasco communicated anything to the commoners, it's that for whatever reason, that isn't going to happen. The moderators are going to be as imperious, abusive and arbitrary as they want to be. Sciforums isn't willing to improve in that regard. It is what it is.

    The rest of us have to accept that, or else move on to places that we might perceive as being more congenial.

    If we stay here, we need to recognize that several moderators have agendas that they care about deeply and perhaps even obsessively, that they DO NOT respond well to disagreement, and when they become angry, shit happens.

    That's just the way it is when people believe that they possess the power to enforce their will on others without feeling that they face any consequences to themselves.
     
  11. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    Maybe this forum should be democratic, and we all vote for the mods. I'm going to vote for Aqueus thingy, he is quite good.
     
  12. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    You can vote for anything, or anyone you want... Just remember, there is no democracy here. Then again, this is the internet... meh.
     
  13. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    I think we should get the Aqueus guy in here. He'd do a good job. No democracy=coup. We could do it.
     
  14. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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  15. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    I don't doubt that he would do a good job... I do doubt that he would want to though... he's been here for a while. This place has definitely changed over time.
     
  16. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    You've just been elected to be a mod. It's democracy in action. Step up to the plate.
     
  17. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    I have also been following this and agree with your take on this completely. Regarding Bells and Tiassa well I like them, they are passionate about what they believe and back it up quite well. About LG, well I stopped reading his posts a while ago, I am too old for merry-go-rounds if ya know what I mean. :shrug:

    Some saw this moderator disagreement as dysfunctional or as airing dirty laundry but not I. What I saw was adults using well thought out arguments to defend their positions and then put it to a vote, hell sounds like a democracy to me.

    @ Aqueous

    I have always enjoyed your posts and intellect and think you would be a fine moderator.
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, let me ask this: What sub-forum would you want Aqueous Id to be a moderator of? Looking at his history, he doesn't have much in the way of infractions (or even bickering for that matter) and he has a pretty high postcount for the number of years he has been here, indicating a high level of activity. *shrugs* I'd have no problem with him joining the team to be honest...

    Aqueous Id, what say ye? Would you want me to suggest this as a course of action? Obviously it wouldn't be on my say-so, but I can certainly bring it up
     
  19. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    He should be a top-level mod, capable of fixing anything. He's a bit prolix though, so he should be limited in his prose.
     
  20. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I don't have any secret inside information or anything, but from what I've gleaned from conversations/arguments with James is that he has the ability to demote moderators. He has to this point refused, even when Bells said I was no better than Anders Breivik, the psychopath who killed 77 people in Norway, but he has the ability to do so.

    I don't know what he was trying to accomplish by putting the ban to a vote, but the fact that he put it to a vote at all means he had the power to completely remove the ban if he wanted. Maybe he was hoping the rest of his mods (who for the most part seem to be genuinely fair, personable folks) would vote against such an obviously unfair ban.

    Obviously.

    I've discussed this matter with James several times, and he is not receptive to the idea of any sort of standardized moderation, preferring to trust the mods to interpret the rules for themselves and enforce them at their discretion. I understand the potential benefits of such a hands-off approach, though as we've just seen, it often leads to disagreements between mods and the administration, and even among the mods themselves.

    If he insists on such a program, then he should fill his mod roster with even-tempered, fair individuals. What he's done instead is pick political extremists (Tiassa, Madanthonywayne), a ticking time bomb (Bells), and a Christian apologist to run the Religion subforum at a science site (Syne). Without their moderator protection status, (and in Syne's case, frequenting a subforum with virtually zero moderation) this list could stand as Sciforums' Most Infracted Members. But instead, they're moderators. How backwards is that?
     
  21. Balerion Banned Banned

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    8,596
    Moderator of the Religion forum, instead of Syne.
     
  22. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Actually back in the day that's how it was. When I became a moderator I was voted in marginally beating a few other candidates (one being Tiassa at the time) The site and the people were a lot different back then, there wasn't so many "grumpy old mehn" trolling the forums, the moderators were seen as instigators of discussion rather than just the cleaning crew brought into mop up and get abused by those that frequent here.

    Over the years though a number of things changed, some people that were voted in got in and then undermined the forum in a number of ways. This caused voting people in based upon popularity to be stopped, since it was proven that some were clearly manipulative enough to get a vote and misuse it how they saw fit.

    It's a shame in a way that the innocent nature of how things were done past hence became so malformed and corrupted, worse still is how people perceive the current method of operation as being that malformed and corrupted.... unfortunately the irony is the current system is what evolved from the misconduct of members and ex-moderators alike. Love it or hate it, it's not something that could have a band-aid thrown on it to fix it, that would just be a crutch. If it was to be done correctly then it would require a completely "big bang" implementation, re-inventing sciforums from the foundations up. That currently isn't however on the cards :/

    Historically that's occurred here a few times too (a number of DDoS attacks also). Coup's are messy, especially if technically you don't have the rights to have a coup. How I mean is we aren't talking about a country where you live where things might not be going the way they should, where you own a vest interest. We are talking about an online forum, own by some private citizens somewhere on the planet that just grant us the ability to post freely at it with some simple but effective rules to follow.

    It's not like Take back the Streets... To be honest if you want true democracy to come from this, then the only other alternative is to do like others have before, create a website and split off from this one. I tried previously to set in motion such sites, so those that felt over taxed by all the "politics" could have somewhere to function, however at the time it was seen as something that too connected to this site, so the rebel rouser's at the time attacked it as much as they attacked here. It's a shame in a way, since with there help it could of become an interesting spin-off... "C'est La Vie" as they say.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    6,117
    Can rpenner moderate the Physics & Math section?

    :shy:
     

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