Thoughts on the Boeing tragedies. technically.

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by nebel, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. nebel

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    At airshows these planes are seen to climb initially at astonishing rates, which of course is not the same as the angle at which the airflow advances on the wings. Stall normally happens when a plane flies to slow, trying to maintain altitude with too little power, not as in the 2 tragedies, that happened during near full power limbs.
    It is a scary situation when machines malfunctioning can take decision power away from humans.
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    This makes no sense.
    No.
     
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  5. nebel

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    we are talking about the illustration in the BBC story. what the images did not show is airflow. there is a difference between the angle of incidence (attitude above Horizon) and angle of attack ( inclination to oncoming airflow). usually above 13 degrees the flow disrupts, and suction above the wings ceases. In a loop the wing chord goes through 360 degrees but the airflow might even be laminar all the way.
    Any lift problem can of course be overcome with engine power, if available, and these commercial jets can do amazing feats when pushed to the boundaries of their flight envelope.We must trust the companies that here a new aerodynamic problem was not fixed by tweaking the software., not just malfunctioning airflow sensors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    be able to
    or is it wrong to expect to trust a company ?
    this is a bit of a moral quandary for mixed market regulated industries competing with Laissez-faire capitalism with latent regulatory litigious counter punching for public relations.

    who pays for the trust ?
    the company out of their capital investment ?(before they come to market)
    or the public in their loss of life ?
    is ticket price able to address the trust issue or is that a fools debate ?
     
  8. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    Bateries cant be discharged fast like that.
    Btw
    Did you know there are about 100 fires of gasoline powered cars every day,,what should we do about that!?
     
  9. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    I dont like to speculate on the reason of that crash,,
    But with hundreds of other same airplanes flying perfectly well,makes me think it was pilot error,mainly bc Ive heard the copilot had only 200 flying hours and failed his test on Flight simulator emergency recovery in adverse conditions..
     
  10. nebel

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    Yes we have come a long way since the Pinto, moving the tanks midship, hardening them and lines. Allied planes, lucky pilots had actually self=sealing tanks.
    Any malfunction, seen right, is actually a steppingstone to a safer future.
     
  11. nebel

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    Where there any reports of other pilot teams successfully winning the wrestling game against the anti stall malfunction? In the Hudson river landing, the copilot was trying to follow Engine restart procedures according to the book until the last moment.
    The new model was a step ahead in performance. but it seems to have made the flight more critical. perhaps time for a step backward, for safety's sake.
     
  12. nebel

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    thought is now, that the crew never throttled back from climb power, could not overcome aerodynamic forces on elevator manually.
    who would want to reduce power if the system says you are stalling?
     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    good news about them calling a review team together.
     
  14. nebel

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    2,469
    From RT Russian television on the Air fFrance Airbus crash.: " Prosecutors have recommended that Air France face trial, concluding that the company was aware of technical problems with a speed-measuring instrument on its Airbus A330 plane. bold added.

    The airline did not inform pilots or train them in how to resolve the issues.--" so:

    Knowing how the wind really blows is crucial, Airbus must have been busy too fixing that glitch, as it did when at the paris airshow one of their planes decided to land in a nearby forest, computer misunderstanding the pilots "show of" maneuver.
    hope for not jittery nerves when flights start again.
     
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  15. nebel

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    it seems the problems are deep, production halted for now
     
  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    $30,000,000.00 US$ per year salary for the C.E.O
    imagine what the bonuses(& perks, the perks alone would be more than the average american yearly wage) must be

    the corporate staff salary's 'alone' probably are larger than the total income of more than 60% of all company's in the usa.

    what is the combined salary's of the Board ? that must be a mind bending figure

    occam's razor

    massive expansion in people who can afford air travel 2014 to 2015 off the back of global growth driven by china

    probably ... company's like Boeing have abandoned due diligence aspects to put products on the market faster to try and capture the profit of the boom

    now its the bust

    Global Tourism has taken quite a hit(rise of global nationalism & the far right, usa china trade war & currency disruptions)

    Now BREXIT being handled like a punching bag(after being handled as a kicking bag)

    Budget safety models for budget prices ?

    the bust was known as boom n bust economics dictates right ?

    i cant say what i would do if i was the Boeing C.E.O because i cant identify with such elitist concepts.

    if i was his PR advisor i would tell him to publicly put aside 1 or 2 million dollars to pay for grocery's(basic normal household weekly food) for immediate family dependents of those killed in the Boeing crashes.
    (he could probably have a lot of that 2 million written back in tax exemptions)

    but you can see from his answers to the senator ...
    it just doesn't enter his reality.
    its all a big theater production

    whats his tax on 30 million ?
    he pays trump 50% in tax ?
    that's 15 million dollars trump gets
    maybe trump could give a few million to the victims.
    but that would not be capitalism then would it
     
  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    probably systemic lapses in best practice
    allowing a business culture of best speed
    this tends to create micro fractures in long line systems
    immediate single action events can be rectally examined till the cows come home but they dont show the systemic culture of speed over best practice.

    when the orchestra is all playing together and 30% of them are out of tune but only by a tiny fraction
    the end result is a distortion.

    this distortion is inside human error in attenuation

    managers who were sticklers for best practice were probably asked to leave a few years back(managed/squeezed out/re-trained)
    now they have fucked themselves as that facade corporate culture of theater has pervaded their intellectual models of leadership
    like the panto character has taken over the actors personality.(the normal corporate sociopath)

    but they are rich so who cares what they choose to do to themselves right ?

    imagine trump could say(now thats how you win votes)
    he is taking 50% of all the management(& corporates) salary taxes he has taken for the last 12 months and putting them into a fund for the victims dependents.

    so easy
    yet so hard
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  18. river

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    17,307
    Life , peoples lives , have become cheap , meaningless . Both from above the struggles of life and those who struggle with living and all inbetween .

    We have become too tough as an attitude , generally . To have the attitude of being friendly to others , with no connotations , is rare it seems .
     
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  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    socialisms' executioner
     
  20. river

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    What is ?
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    hhmmm...
    what type of political system do you live in ?
     
  22. river

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    Canada ( meaning , village ) in Native language .

    A supposed Democracy .
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Canada ... centre left leaning mixed market economy(Globally recognised as an ideal economic model & a system that is used in some European countrys)

    you are asking a question for which the answer would not make any sense to you.

    using metaphours to describe things requires a certain amount of scope of understanding.

    you need to have 0 "suppose" in your ability to comprehend sociological political-economic systems to be able to comprehend the meaning of my half truth joke.

    if you had no interest up to now to study politics your own motivation stands ready

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    you don't have to
    but to comprehend the meaning and how it relates you need to comprehend a fair bit about how people think, how the economy works and such like.

    subtle meanings can be defined with words that may seem distracting to your frame of reference.

    in the action of making everything simple for someone to understand, you remove the imputous for them to increase their comprehension ability
    this simply drives addictive behaviours and entitlement (a huge issue for the elitists)
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019

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