This is for religious debate ...

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by DaveW, May 20, 1999.

  1. DaveW Guest

    If you wish to debate God, angels, Satan etc., this is the place.

    Does anyone want to moderate this forum?
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  3. Flash Guest

    Hey Dave...good job man

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    Too bad Lori is not around..she would the
    perfect one to moderate, huh?
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  5. Bottica Guest

    Really well done...Dave

    i.e. Lori

    Flash has a good point (LOL)...Lori would be the perfect person for this position !!!

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  7. Sirius B Guest

    "Hello to all"

    I have heard (through the years) that there is evidence in the Bible that supports extra-terrestrial existance. If there is evidence in the Bible about ET's why isn't there an entire "book of the bible" dedicated to them?
    Would God have chosen not to include this information in his message to those who wrote the Bible? Was the information purged due to the many different translations? What do you think?

    Sirius B.
  8. Bottica Guest

    A lot of information in regards to God and his teaching was purge due to many transalations...and this by itself is a discussion !
    As for E.T., we have to remember that in those days there was nothing of the sort to whom ever would have encountered and "allien" / the term "allien" did not exist in their minds..I mean this term that we use only came in existance about 70 years ago!
    Now, there is no doubt when we now read the bible, with our present experience, that there were special encounters in the past.

  9. Lori Guest

    Read Genesis chapter 6 which preludes the conditions of society before the flood. It says (in my watered-down study version), "When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." Verse 4; "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-AND ALSO AFTERWARDS-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the HEROES OF OLD, MEN OF RENOWN." In verse 5, God sees the wickedness of man on earth, and He grieved, and said that He will wipe mankind off of the face of the earth. Verse 9 says that God found Noah to be righteous and blameless among all of the people of his time, and walked with God. This is a watered down version, like I said. I have also seen where the KJV says something more along the lines of that Noah's lineage was pure, meaning that he was genetically pure, meaning that he was not a descendent of the sons of God, who had bred with the daughters of men. This is happening again, see? The Nephilim are the fallen angels (sons of God), and the aliens are the Nephilim. They're back to try again. Creating the most renowned men of OUR time; scientists, govt leaders, leaders of our churches? To usher in the Antichrist in the end times.
  10. Sirius B Guest

    So..., According to what you've (Lori) read, the aliens are nothing more than fallen angels who have been trying to mix with the human race in order to create a leader (anti-christ) who will do their bad deeds here on Earth? Did I misunderstand? If this is true then, you could say that the aliens mean to do us all "harm" (in a major way)! I'm not sure that I agree with this line of thought. I really believe that there is more to it than good vs. evil. Do you think it (the idea of aliens being mentioned in the bible) could have been "purged" because the information delt with technological advancement of the human species as well as creating unity on a broad scale? I think the various scholars who translated the scriptures had their own ideas of what people should read about in the bible. What do you guys think?
  11. Flash Guest

    Supposing that the Bible is true and that
    it was translated correctly, which is
    The whole point was that the others denied
    god... god couldn't stand looking at the
    wicked any he decided to wipe
    out man, except Noah and family...
    he hasn't elected to do that since, because
    he sent his son, Jesus, to be the ultimate
    sacrifice... by doing this.. god can stand
    to look at our butts..because Jesus was
    suppose to wipe out the sins of those that
    believed. Therefore, that is the ONLY..
    reason god chose to wipe out man..due to
    the wickedness..not because of the aliens
    Also, it states the sons of God..where in
    the bible does it say these sons of god are
    fallen angels?????????????????????????
    Where in the scriptures does god refer to
    angels, of any type, as the sons of god???
    I think our focus is on the wrong deity!!!!
    or rather..we are being distracted trying
    to pin this on a religious point of view...
    doing this will not solve nor accomplish

    [This message has been edited by Flash (edited May 24, 1999).]
  12. Sirius B Guest

    Hey "Flash"

    I see your point however, I am still not sure if the bible specificaly refers to ET's (as we know them)in any passage. I was never taught about them in Sunday school and yet, I know they exist.

    Maybe I should just ask the aliens. What do you think?
  13. Flash Guest

    hahaha.. yes, maybe you should do that...
    nothing like going to the source, huh?
  14. Lori Guest

    Hi Guys,

    You're right. It doesn't say specifically that the "sons of God" are fallen angels, but as we've all pointed out, it's up to interpretation. I have seen that many theologians have interpreted that passage this way. Your best guess is probably better than mine, but what is it then? In the days of Noah, yes it was the evil of men, and yes, it was MAN'S falling away from God that was the issue, but I'm asking, do you think that if the same thing was happening then, that is happening now, would that not propagate a falling away? There is no doubt in my mind, or the minds of many others, that we, as humans, are the spoils of a war being fought in heaven. There is a good and evil spirit on this earth, and each day and each moment, we are influenced by each. Being pulled this way and that like a rope in a tug of war. Our egos make us think that we are only accountable to ourselves, and that there are no absolutes, such as a true right and a true wrong, but that is not true, and that is evident everywhere in our society nowadays, and for centuries past. I'm not about to think that the Bible is a really good piece of fiction, are you? So if the Nephilim aren't the fallen angels, then what are they?

    As for the interpretation of the Bible, there is no doubt that there has been much misinterpretation, even when two different people are reading the exact same translation. I've heard that there are books of the Bible that were not included in the KJV. I also know, from what I remember of my history lessons, that the Christian Church has gone through times when it's congregation and leaders have been far from God and His laws. Egos...they get the best of us, don't they? Ok, this is what I DO know (which isn't much). God has put His Holy Spirit here on earth, and the Bible was originally written through this Spirit. This is a protective Spirit of sorts, and especially when it comes to the interpretation of the Bible. Knowing that God is what He is, which is everything, and all-powerful, it doesn't seem that far fetched to me, that if He wanted to, He could "protect" this piece of work. Hey, if the salvation of our souls is supposed to rest on this book, then wouldn't it seem prudent to protect it for all generations? I also know from personal experience, that when I first started reading the Bible, it may as well have been written in Japanese, for all I understood of it. And I know that once I asked for the Holy Spirit to guide me through it, and I asked to be shown the truth, that it became much more easy for me to understand. The Bible says itself that it can't be interpreted correctly, if not through the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore, you have to have some faith before you can even hope to understand. In that way, no, I don't think it's a good piece of fiction. I think that it's a spiritual tool, that is powerful in itself. For instance, have you read that book called "The Bible Code"? Lots of people think it's hogwash, but it seems pretty ironic what they've tied together within the words of the text. Also, what about the fact that the end times prophecy has been sealed from understanding until the last days? The words of the prophecy are not hidden from sight. They just can't be understood, until God wants us to understand them. I think that a lot of this prophecy is coming to light right now, and within the topics discussed on this forum.
  15. Flash Guest

    as a matter of fact..yes, I do think it
    is fiction... there are wayyyyyyyyyy too
    many passages of the Bible that Gods own
    couldn't even get together right. One says
    this, and the other says it happened another
    way. If God's spirit was to protect his
    word..then why couldn't they get that right?
    (I know it sounds like I am being harsh..
    or a bitc*..I do not mean to..its just how
    I feel) Why wouldn't God make his word
    known and clear????? If I was God..I would
    have made sure it was clear. The Bible is
    one of the most confusing and contradictory
    books in the world... why??????????
    back to Noah..ect.. it states they were
    gods sons.. either they are or they are not..
    why wouldn't say.. the fallen angels?
  16. Flash Guest

    here is some info on wicca protection..
  17. Bottica Guest

    I still hold to the fact that the bible was transalated so many times throught history that it has lost its original messages. The only message that I see remaining to this day and age, is that God is supposed to be a loving and giving entity...(again could be discussed !).
    As for the fallen angels, I clearly remember a passage from the creation of times that states that the fallen angels were created by an angel that thought he was as great and powerful as God (his creator), from there a division ensued, and this angel in question and his followers were banned from heaven (thus the creation of hell, and the devil). As for Noah, if you follow all ancient civilisations history you will see that the story of a great deluge is part of their past. I state this to prove that the "deluge or cleansing" has nothing to do with "our bible". A castastrophy happened of mega proportion....

    Lori and Flash
    Interested in Wicca protection and the like there is another site you might like to look at Pagansunite. This site is fully protected, and the chat area is very instructive if not just plain giving and honest.

  18. Boris Guest

    God must be one sick cookie. First he makes this divine plan where everything, including the flood, is prescribed down to the last drowned infant. Then he goes off and gets sad for the human race, and then gets mad at them, and then decides to wipe them all out. Not to mention taking a trip down later on, so he can be crucified by his beloved creations, whom he, by the way, adores beyond belief. But that's okay, because he gets back at his most dedicated worshippers by letting them be the scapegoats of lore throughout the ages, and finally bringing about Hitler and letting him massacre a few million of them. Is this not the sickest, schizophrenic, most masochistic and sadistic psychopath ever, or what?? A cosmic kid, who knows the outcome of the game ahead of time, but plays 'pretend' with his toys anyway to his heart's content. Good grief people, what are you worshiping???? [sorry, I've been trying to restrain myself for too long

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    "Contradictions" doesn't even begin to describe it. More like total mental spaghetti.]

    To that effect, could someone please explain the following to me: How does anyone, God-sponsored or not, using stone-age technology, travel the whole world over, collecting the entire land-dwelling biosphere, stuffing it onto a seaworthy wooden ship that must've been the size of Israel (built by Moses singlehandedly, of course, out of several centuries' worth of middle-eastern wood stocks), keeping all those animals from eating all the plants and each other, keeping them all groomed and fed for weeks (mana must've been raining especially hard that year), and then managing to disseminate all the lifeforms back to their corresponding geological locations???!!! Being mindful, of course, to preserve quite a few specimens of each species to avoid genetic pool depletion and reproductive failure (people those days must've been really up on genetics and breeding). And of course, the mana must've been raining for decades, because it would've taken that much time for the various eco-systems to recuperate enough to support all the animals again. But out of curiosity, did Moses have available something like the Santa Clause's super-relativistic sled, or a few of his bottomless bags? The entire modern world, with all of its technology, resources and manpower couldn't duplicate Moses' stunt even in 10 lifetimes. Come on guys! If you don't really believe in Santa Claus, how could you possibly believe in the story of Moses??? And in case you actually believe in Santa Claus, I've got a beautiful, historic bridge for you at a rock bottom price.

    In light of all the discussion concerning pre-Moses civilizations, why don't we first give some consideration to the viability of anything that the Bible says about that period? Or, for that matter, about any period!
  19. Sirius B Guest

    O.k. "Boris" you have done well to keep it in this long (LoL). I must admit, I have never looked at things quite the way you see them. I know that it all sounds pretty "fantastic!" There was a time when I had my doubts and what cleared my head was the fact that I do believe ET's exist. I cannot explain them but I know they exist. I am unable to explain God, Jesus, the bible or any of the religious things that we have been discussing. However, I know that God exists too! .......Dilemma's, Dilemma's ~

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  20. Bottica Guest

    Boris and all,

    Hummm, I am no scientist here, and my english can be bab at times, but has it ever occured to you that what was suposedly written in the bible was only a "visual transalation " of what people saw in those days... More excatly what the "persons" living in those days could understand and comprehend?
    Imagine being told by some forieng entity that the world that you know is going to die, and that you are supposed to get "two" of every living thing on this earth vegetable, animal, mineral etc..... Do you really beleive that there was a wooden ship that took care of all this precious data ? This is what we are given in the bible, and this is what I have been trying to get across in poor english....
    This is bullshit....

    Now, lets put our collective inteligent brains you really think they would have been able to do such a feat in those days...???? Noooooo ...
    That is without the help of some foregin inteligence ?

    Now, lets look at this scenario differently...There is a major castatrophy that is to happen on this planet. "Alliens" have decided to "save" some of the genetics...they take samples (clonning in our days or whatever you want to call it) of everything that lives on this planet..
    Move everything to some spaceship (wooden ship in the bible)...wait for whatever is hapening to planet earth to "cool" down, then move back in with a full load of genetic data to re-create our world.

    Now, taking into account what I have said before, does it not make sense ? People in those days did not know flying saucers, cars or electronics, they spoke in their language with what they knew, what they could refer do...Thus the transalation of the bible.

    Words were wrtten as per the visual they could understand. It is as simple as that. Read your bible, and read about charriots of fire taking apostles to the skies...etc.

    I think there is a lot to discuss here...

  21. Flash Guest

    Well Bottica..that certainly makes more

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    truthfully, I believe that since the people
    back in that time was trying to disprove
    the gods of mt olympus...they created a
    new way not to disprove this new God- we can not come up with actual proof to prove the one "true" God does not exist. Its not like we can fly up to heaven and check it they covered their butts there. However, the Bible is FILLED with contradictions right and left. The whole basis/foundation that is suppose
    to make the meat of it all is the story
    of Jesus and his death/resurrection...
    of you will look at all 4 of the gospels
    (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) their
    own accounts of what happened are off
    base with one another-Totally!!!!!!!!!!!
    So, if God is so perfect...
    why couldn't he make sure that his word
    was translated (in any language) correct???
    Why all the contradictions? Because man
    wrote the Bible.. man created a God to
    give some sort of meaning to their lives..
    and for what???? I have to agree with
    Borris... good old Santa's story has been
    alive for a loooooooong time..and we teach
    this to kids... then there is the easter
    bunny.. the list goes on and on... for
    some reason people want to believe there
    is a the story has been kept alive.
    They want some hero to rescue them from
    whatever the hell they want rescued from.
    This is a huge set up for disappointment..
    not to mention, makes for a weak nation..
    BECAUSE.. they are relying on an outside
    source, that isn't even real, to get them
    through every little detail of their lives.
    Keep in mind though, if they do not live
    according to his word..they get the prize
    behind curtain number 2, HELL. Why, if
    God is real, did he just not create believers
    since he knows already which person is going
    to believe and which ones aren't? If you ask
    me God is the true puppet master. If he
    truly wanted people to follow and believe..
    he shouldn't make it so hard. If you were
    God..and all so loving, ect.. and desired people to go to heaven.. would you not make
    sure that all people would have a clear picture??? Of course you would...soooo
    to me... he is as dead and as unbelievable
    as good old Santa.

    [This message has been edited by Flash (edited May 25, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by Flash (edited May 25, 1999).]
  22. Okay, i haven't been reading up on what other people have been saying, so i have no idea if this has already been said:

    Religion, essentially was created as a form of law to keep people in line, and to be courtious and honest to each other. But some how people forgot that and created it into something it really wasn't in a vain attempt to control things. Religion. like all things is man made. Obey this, obey that or you'll go to hell. A very primitive for of though control if you ask me...

    Ja Ne, Ghost

  23. Sirius B Guest

    Wow! O.k., I am going to take some time off to really think (hard)about that one.

    You know (Ghost), I once heard that this was true of religion. Also, there was something mentioned in one of my History classes about Religion being used as a form of "control."

    We should all remember, this (message board) is a forum by which we may express ourselves without facing riducule by our peers, family, etc. I really hope no one is becoming angry or upset because someone else has a different view.


    I wonder if maybe, the aliens gave "us" the bible so that "we the people" would behave while they (the aliens) were away? Ya-think?
    (o.K., a little comic relief!)

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