Things That Are Not There

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by davidelkins, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. river Valued Senior Member

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    So it comes down to the Brain .

    Which is made of elements found on this Earth . Water , Fats , vitamins , minerals etc.

    My point being , that the Brain is made of things that are not fiction , meaning that the Brain sees the world as it is because it is made of the same things as our world is .
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure that blind persons would not be interested in being given a seeing eye dog who not only sees the world by light entering the eye, being processed by the eye/brain/sensory system hence being seen.

    But also acts on any other signal acting on the eye/brain/sensory system seeing things that are not there.
     
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  5. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure that blind persons would not be interested in being given a seeing eye dog who not only sees the world by light entering the eye, being processed by the eye/brain/sensory system hence being seen.

    But also acts on any other signal acting on the eye/brain/sensory system seeing things that are not there.
     
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  7. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Repeat

    Nobody can see things which are not there.

    They are not there, hence there is nothing for light to reflect from, be processed by the eye/brain/sensory system hence be seen.

    Interpretation of what is being seen relies on experience.

    Other signals acting on the eye/brain/sensory system can be interpreted from experience cobbling together an explanation (with no basis in reality).

    One form of this mis information is called hallucination.

    Again, hallucinations are not 'vision' << held to be what we 'see'.
     
  8. river Valued Senior Member

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    What do mean here , last sentence ?
     
  9. river Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed

    But to your third idea above ( high lighted ), explain a bit more , I sort of get it .
     
  10. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    The seeing eye dog acting on the eye/brain/sensory system seeing things that are not there.

    In other words a seeing eye dog having hallucinations.
     
  11. river Valued Senior Member

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    Ahh
     
  12. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Nor would I be interested in having hallucinations. I'm not aware of many people that are. And fortunately it's quite rare - including for dogs - can make things awkward. But that doesn't change things - arguments of definition are not influenced by emotional appeals.
    Look - you have your definition/understanding, restricting "seeing" to the interpretation of photons entering through the eye. Others have different definitions / understandings. Coming up with rather irrelevant examples isn't going to do anything to progress the discussion.
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is a silly red herring.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    1] Disembodied eyeballs do not see anything, despite light passing through their lenses.
    2] There are ways of transmitting light into the eye that do no involve the light bouncing off any real object.
    3] There are ways the eyes can see things that occur within the eye.

    i.e. Seeing is not the physical process of light reflection and transmission.

    Seeing is a complex process that requires a central processing system to process the image.
     
  15. river Valued Senior Member

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    So now explain all three , in detail .
     
  16. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    1/ Disembodied eyeballs do not have the remainder of the pathway to convert light going through their lenses. Dah.

    2/ ...transmitting light into the eye.. means light will be seen. Dah dah.

    3/ Things which are seen within the eye (mostly called floaters) are the remnants of dead cells. And guess what! Floaters are seen by light bouncing off them. Da da.

    ie Yes it is.

    Except you left out 'interpretation' by
    '...a central processing system...'

    Back briefly to:-

    3/. Pressure within the eyeball causes perceived light flashes (which have no basis in reality having no light as their origin).

    The pressure signals are also sent around the brain where they are perceived as pain.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A disembodied eyeball is just a complex light sensor. But it cannot process the information it receives, except to forward it to the mirror neural system of the brain, where it is reprocessed into mental images. If either the eye or the reprocessing function of the mirror system has a flaw, a person may be color blind, i.e misinterpret the information which is received. Optical illusions are a perfect example.
    Irrelevant.
    Not true, the brain can see (create an image) of the mathematical coding which is transmitted from the eye to the brain.
    That's correct, The eye is the sensor which collects information (visible light), which is then transmitted to the neural system in the brain, which translates that information into mental images.
     
  18. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    3,494
    Extract

    i.e. Seeing is not the physical process of light reflection and transmission.

    Yes it is.

    Except you left out 'interpretation' by
    '...a central processing system...'

    Seeing is a complex process that requires a central processing system to process the image.

    Yes it is.

    Except you left out 'light entering the eye' leading into >> 'interpretation' by onto >>
    '...a central processing system...'
     
  19. river Valued Senior Member

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    And the central processing system has evolved based on the enviroment and the fundamental consituents of the system , which is based on the materials found in the enviroment.
     
  20. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    So what? Can't see your point.

    Can hardly expect anything to evolve based on substances not found.
     
  21. river Valued Senior Member

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    My point is the Brain is based on the minerals and bio-chemical structure , meaning that what the Brain is made of , is of this Universe .

    Meaning that the Brain is not made of some material that is not found in the Universe .

    Therefore all things that the Brain senses , in the material world is ccompatable, with the Brains building block constituents .
     
  22. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Again.

    So what? Still can't see any point let alone your point.

    It is impossible for anything to made of some material that is not found in the Universe.

    Not sure how to comment on last paragraph without giving wriggle room for a nonsense reply to return.

    Except the above paragraph way.
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Correct. Your assertion that the action of seeing is that of light bouncing off objects and entering the eye is not true. There is more to it.

    Correct. Your assertion that the action of seeing is that of light bouncing off objects and entering the eye is false. There is more to it.

    Floaters was not my example.

    You admit that it is perceived. The flash is seen.

    You are attempting to define seeing circularly. "Seeing is the operation of light bouncing off an object, and entering the eye". Since that is your (unproven) assertion, you can't also claim as the criterion for proving the assertion.
     

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