# There is no such thing as cause and effect.

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by swarm, Apr 10, 2009.

1. ### swarmRegistered Senior Member

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Yes but, as the paradox goes, before you traverse the first half, you have to traverse half of that (1/4), and before you traverse that, you have to traverse half of that (1/8), etc. (1/16), etc. (1/32) ... on to an infinite regress.

One fellow concluded that because of this all movement was an illusion and you never actually went any where.

3. ### ningBannedBanned

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The question this paradox addresses (Zeno's) is "when do I get there?".

You don't. You touch the wall, or you reach the line on the ground; you 'pass' your destination though, in time, even if that means not moving and looking past it; all your senses, in that case 'touch' something in the external world; your inertial frame has a 'touching' frame.

As Descartes argued, you cannot prove that this external "touching world" you're in does exist. You can only sense it, so it could all be on a projector; it is on a projector - the one projected at you by the 'universe of projection'.

Our sense of time is inevitable; this projection-space is all we can see, or touch in any sense. With no senses, there is no sense of time, 'no-senses' can only have one solution, equivalent to 'not-sensing'

5. ### cluelusshusbund+ Public Dilemma +Valued Senior Member

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Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Please give an esample of that:::

Swarm---"In more chaotic environments causes may not even come close to a particular effect." ”

Thats simply an esample of cause an effect.!!!

Swarm---"In more chaotic environments causes may not even come close to a particular effect."

So in you'r mind... you thank cause-an-effect does not occur because what you desire does not always hapen... but the prollem wit that is... desire does not over-rule actual causes.!!!

People up in the stands may have all sorts of diferent desires for the outcom of a horse race... but those desires alone wont have an effect on which horse wins.!!!

7. ### sly1HeartlessRegistered Senior Member

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the mind sees quite literaly everything its ever shown throughout your lifetime. EVENTS in every sense of the word can only occur or be MARKED when your mind deems it as such. Having said that the proof would be that you dont "remeber" or wont be able to "recall" every single moment possible withint your lifetime because not all of them have been or could have been tagged as "events" by your mind.

Also Beginning and End are very vague but if you stick strictly to the definitions of those words there IS NO BEGINNING OR END only transitions this is why energy cannot be created or destroyed and this is why the ig bang theory is ONLY PLAUSABLE if it ends in a BIG CRUNCH and recycleing. That is not beginning and ending its only a circular transition as is everything.

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9. ### cluelusshusbund+ Public Dilemma +Valued Senior Member

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As far as i know... specific causes have specific effects.!!!

What the bat is made of... an the speed an angle in which it travels is only a part of why the ball takes a particular path when struck... but if all the conditons (causes) such as wind speed an directon... ect... are the sam each time... when the ball is struck it will travel the sam path each time.!!!

Yes... diferent causes produce diferent effects..!!!

An it doesnt that i know of... but if the sam causes started producin diferent effects i cant emagine how life woud continue to esist.!!!

I dout that ether 1 of us can prove it 1 way or the other... but i suspect ther are causes for the way atoms behave.!!!

The reasons for my curent actons ant limited to immediate external causes... an no mater how many times my curent scenerio were to be played out... if all the conditons (causes) are the sam... then time after time i will have this disire to go make a cup of decaff coffee.!!!

All thru human history... the mor we learn about the causes of certan events... the beter we understan why those events occured an the less we beleive in "magic".!!!

10. ### ningBannedBanned

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cause-effect construct a set of obsrvables; when they become cause.effect, the lamda function makes one of them vanish.

You can then get one or the other back but not both - logic compresses them.

11. ### CyperiumI'm always meValued Senior Member

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And this is why the future and past actually exists and time is only a focused reality along the line of time? Cause if the future doesn't really exist and the past doesn't exist after the present, then there is a beginning and an end to each moment.

Explain to me more about these transitions.

Last edited: May 3, 2009

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well put.

13. ### CyperiumI'm always meValued Senior Member

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If those bonds weren't there then matter would just pass through matter, as such matter itself doesn't actually touch matter as they can pass through each other, which happens in Bose-Einstein condensate.

14. ### swarmRegistered Senior Member

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So if only they didn't touch, they wouldn't touch?

15. ### swarmRegistered Senior Member

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Happily now you know better. The best that can be said is that for certain types of interaction similar antecedents give similar results within a margin of error under idyll conditions.

And yet the universe conspires against anything ever being the same. The best you can do is sometimes get close by cooking your context in the lab to a cracklely crunch and even then there are areas which will not submit to our original notions of simple causality. Then there are weird things like gravity and Bell's theorem.

Just like it always has.

So far the particle physic ts crowd is resistant to this. So far my favorite quote...smashing particles is like slamming clocks together and having them break into thousands of clocks, some bigger than the originals.

And yet sometimes for no discernible external cause you won't.

replacing one magic with another is not progress.

16. ### TralayRegistered Member

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86

I was sitting here at my computer this morning and a revelation hit me, there is no such thing as cause and effect, it is all just one congruous movement. I plugged in the words no such thing as cause and effect and got to this page. You are the first person I've found who seems to understand what I'm seeing now.

17. ### akoreamericanRegistered Senior Member

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602
David Hume was just confused and he wrote about why him being confused was correct and you were wrong. Even though the concepts he question are things that working for us in reality. it was all just counterproductive, kinda like this thread

Last edited: Jul 23, 2017