Theists in severe decline.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Political Party. Singular.
    And therein lies a problem - declines in theism are going to be unevenly distributed, and the political consequences of that variation may be amplified by variation in religious observance.
    The confusion of religion with theism will prevent clarity of observation as well as reason.
    Children of atheistic parents may be more likely to become religious than theistic, for example - especially in regards to an Abrahamic deity with whose believers they have long familiarity.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Churches will close. Tax revenue will increase a bit. Religious extremism will decline.

    But overall not much will change.
    ?? No.

    The younger generation will always find ways to rebel. The children of liberal parents will wear suits and become corporate lawyers. The children of conservative parents will get a dozen facial piercings and work selling bongs and legal pot. They will always find a way.
     
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  5. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    We are doing just fine with the crutch of religious doctrine. Humanism will suffice.
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I do not want to dominate in anyway at all...other than all must study astronomy and no one leaves school until they are educated☺ understand scientific method and know how to use contraceptives...

    The drive to dominate belongs to religion and there is no chance you can deny such.

    Religion has many negative aspects and desire to have all follow their beliefs is right up there.

    I would like to see stupidy disappear and have religious folk understand science and realise the bronze age is nowhere to seek facts.

    I could make a list.

    Used car salespersons to inject honesty into the industry.

    Fashion models so they can still dress up.

    Prison guards so they have a group of humans to control.

    Tax collectors so they retain community respect.

    Imagine the folk out of work if it was all closed down.

    There is of course the tele evangalists...target practice for new militray gear or a career in politics.
    Alex
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Never did like the idea that a broken clock was right twice a day given you would need a working clock to determine when it was correct.

    Alex
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well you need to establish that proposition and overlook the various deaths due to fights relating to religion.

    Alex
     
  11. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Yet you describe its apparent popularity as increasing, interesting, and question ways to "speed it up" in society.
    I guess you perceive being forthright about your aspirations may impede attempts to "speed it up".
     
  12. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    And, given such developments, subsequent revisions of tax law will not manifest that will enable the reopening of places of worship etc at a later date?
    Or is there something about this particular flavour of conservatism of yours that is impervious to diametric opposition? The conservatism to end all conservatism?
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ?? No. Currently churches are tax exempt, and they are one of the only segments of society to have that very beneficial status. Thus any change to those laws will tend to discourage reopening.
    Nope.
     
  14. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    1,906
    And once that happens and becomes the new conservative norm, tax laws etc will not be subject to revision by diametric swings in opinion?
     
  15. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    1,906
    Its already established.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    They might well be. But as I noted, they are now as advantageous as they can get in favor of churches, so any change will be bad for organized religion.
     
  17. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    I doubt if the pope will have to give up fine china cups for a plastic Sippy cup any time soon

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  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I had a look and it seems atheism has been confused with folk just being on the other side and considered enemies.

    Also I expect the church would be aligned with the old order and attacked for its ties to the old regime.

    In revolution many get the chop in the mandatory reign of terror.

    I am not convinced atheists killed theists because of the fact they were theists.

    And if they were killed on that basis we need to know why...

    All I have read so far seems to be from a theist view point and supports your case so I need to keep looking until I find some cherries suitable for my case.

    It just seems you are biased against atheists unreasonably so☺
    Alex
     
  19. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    As I said, way back when :

    Social conservatism does not equal religion.

    Many conservative governments have or have had a strong edict against organized religion. So what you identify as the means to destabilize religion also works as an ultimate means to destabilize any government endorsed atheism.

    Until you arrive at this point of cultural ascendency, your talk of the waning of religion is just a precursor to its waxing.
     
  20. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    1,906
    The bias against atheists is that they tend to be focused on replacing things without much forethought in to what they will be replacing things with. In worst case scenarios, it involves replacing wheels with things that don't roll (which accounts for the spectacularly high and frequent fatality counts) and in milder cases they are simply unaware that the faults they perceive as intrinsic to religion are broadly nestled in human nature, so they are just repackaging the same shortcomings with different labels.

    In one sense, its safer for atheists, both for themselves as a creed and others in the broader gamut of civilization, if atheists merely bicker from the sidelines. Their critical reception empowers a certain tension that enables a more functional and effective model of religious behaviour, while they remain somewhat distanced from the controls of social engineering (if one can even talk of such a means of trajectory, above and beyond whatever wriggling space that industrial economic pursuits don't flood).
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I can understand that would be a concern.

    I think science can manage the facts and provide explanation of how everything works but you no doubt worry how to manage the stupid folk that still would not understand science...
    And then how to satisfy the need to have a reason for existence...granted few will be content with ...you live you die and your life is just a speck in both space and time...
    I confess if I was seeking control of the world I probably would leave religion in place ... the vacuum would need filling...let me work on that and see if I can do better than the bronze age folk.

    More reality TV maybe☺
    Yes I can see what you point to...
    Get rid of religion and we may simply go to witchcraft...or worse.

    I understand.
    God need not exist at all for the thing to work.

    You did a fine job here.

    I think I like the idea of religion for the masses.

    Alex
     
  22. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Using science to understand what things are or how things work very rarely (and possibly never) determines issues like who gets to put their grubby little hands all over it. Actually such advancements are more often than not directed, funded and maintained by persons who have very itchy palms. Your notion of science somehow empowering a political solution is but another example of the atheistic naivety that drives the position to the bottom of the list on the cultural ascendency charts.
    If you can't conceive of a means to fix things without it falling down a ditch in a burning mess, its probably a good clue that your repairman skills are not required.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    No one is falling down a ditch so dont worry.

    Science and religion both suffer from money hungry folk however science does deliver many wonderful things from agriculture to cheap entertainment for everyone.

    So folk seeking a return on their investment in science is to be expected and that is the way of a market economy.
    No problems.
    I certainly believe religion is extemely inefficient with money given the crooks who prey upon poor folk to finance private jets and mansions with little in return otherxthan a promise God will wipe their credit card debt.
    You must be aware of the problems else you dont address religion with the same approach as you seem to do with science.

    Dont you have confidence in the scientific method? Do you understand what goes on for a scientific model to be accepted.

    Without science we would not be far removed from the bronze age.

    I hope you are not one of those anti science theist types.

    Do you accept the theory of evolution?

    I hope you dont favour intelligent design or consider it should be taught in schools.
    It is not science at all even though it really wants to be it is mere unsupported opinion.

    Care to declare your position...

    And the flood how do you rate the proposition of the biblical world wide flood?
    Science tells us it could never have happened so do uou believe science or the good book on that matter?

    I think religion is built on made up stories which merely reflect unproven opinion but I recognise simple folk need something in their lives to convince themselves they are special which given the size of the universe seems unrealistic.

    You live, you die and thats it really.

    I look forward to your replies to the above questions.

    Have a great day.

    Alex
     

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