The Wise and God

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by martillo, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. martillo Registered Senior Member

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    What do you think about the following hypothetical dialog?
    Source: Metaphysics thoughts
    Is not related to any religious concept of God but to Deism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism).
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting questions

    Not sure the questions can be separated from religious concepts when your reference

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)

    mentions god

    Will try to go through the questions bit by bit

    Wise, about life… Too much bad things happen…

    I am taking a guess here that a person is wise about life and wonders why bad things happen

    Quick simple answer

    There is no god
    The universe is not sentinant

    Seems this is a wrong kind of life. Our World seems to be fortuitous. Is not as it was supposed a World and life would be

    All life fits into a nitch to which it is suited and in reality is not really fortuitous as life from any particular nitch does not do well outside of its place

    Wise, God created the Universe, how would exist something wrong?

    Again no god no creation by god

    No good no bad no right no wrong

    These are human concepts which have no contruct within the Universe

    Things happen according to Physics
    That's it

    Seems there was a problem in the Creation of the Universe which would have badly affected everything even God someway. The things are not as they should be

    No god
    Nothing badly in the formation of the Universe
    Things are exactly as per Physics determine

    But God would have all power to solve anything... What would be missing to solve the things?


    _ Nobody knows God's situation. There's no way to communicate with God. Who knows...


    _ Nothing that could be done about...

    Yes

    God missing

    The ol mysterious ways

    Pray is supposed to be the way

    Church is supposed to know but are totally inept in their efforts

    Don't even bother to try

    One thing is true, if there is a God with a creation he must have a way to perceive it. May be through our own eyes and ears. So God could observe us and may be someone could imagine something useful for God to solve it all. That’s what I think... But maybe is just a matter of time...

    First sentence yes IF IF IF there is a all knowing all seeing god he would perceive the Universe

    However as you must have worked out I don't believe god exist so for me there is no IF

    So no god no observe no solve no anytime

    Sorry

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  5. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    My thought on it - God doesn't want to simply swoop in and make "everything better"... one, because what would be "better" for each person is a bit different, and thus our own individuality means that, short of putting us all in pods and simulating an entirely new world for each person, it would be literally impossible to make the world "perfect" for every individual.

    If I had to hazard a guess on God's thinking, it would be this - He created us with the intent that we would be a free and capable people, able to alter our world and our reality to our whims. The intent being that we would come together to overcome our limitations and transcend our current shortcomings - and in a way, we did that for years, with the continued advancement of technology. However, we have forgotten the idea of "working together", and instead of working for a common good, work for our own individual good. Our greed is the lynch-pin of our undoing - the fact that there are folks with sums of money that are virtually impossible to spend, and yet they dedicate themselves every day to hoarding more and more for no other reason than to say they have it... well, it speaks to an inherent issue that some have developed.

    Imagine what we could accomplish if we ensured everyone's most basic needs were met first, then worked to empower each individual to improve themselves... and thus, improve the whole.

    The sad and disheartening part of it all is that there is nothing, literally nothing, stopping us from doing that... aside from our own hubris.
     
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  7. martillo Registered Senior Member

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    Michael 345 wrote:
    Nothing similar to any religion which in general propose to save the soul just believing in some kind of God. On the contrary is brought the new proposition of a God in trouble by some problem happening at the times of the creation of the Universe and is opened the possibility for someone to imagine something that helping the troubled God would change the future.
     
  8. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Even with my vivid and wild imagination I have a very hard time thinking of god who creates a Universe as having trouble

    Fair enough

    He doesn't want to make a world for each of us

    He could

    But doesn't want to

    Which we are and

    yes we can

    The sad and disheartening part of it all is that the proposed god knows everything including while

    there is nothing, literally nothing, stopping us from doing that >>>

    The intent ........ we would come together to overcome our limitations and transcend our current shortcomings- and in a way, we did that for years, with the continued advancement oftechnology. However, we have forgotten the idea of "working together", and instead of working for a common good,work for our own individual good. Our greed is the lynch-pin of our undoing -the fact that there are folks with sums of money that are virtually impossible to spend, and yet they dedicate themselves every day to hoarding more and more for no other reason than to say they have it... well, it speaks to an inherent issue that some have developed.


    the almighty all knowing God already knows it will not happen and even more disturbing this knowledge was available BEFORE he created the Universe

    So it appears to me the ones who thought up a god who knows everything fell short of thinking through the ramifications of such a entity

    Unfortunate but understandably

    Even more unfortunate and less understandably and even more sad and disheartening is some people continue to insist such a god does indeed exist

    End of soap box Hyde Park Corner rant

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  9. martillo Registered Senior Member

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    Sure you never heard about this point of view before. Time to think about it.
     
  10. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    What would be the point? If He were to do that, we would all be living in what, at best, could generously be called a lie... certainly you have seen The Matrix, in particular the scene where they explained why the first Matrix failed?

    Aye, but I think the majority consensus is that we have stopped altering the world for the better, and have started utterly destabilizing it.

    Pardon, but it would appear you are attempting to blame God for a shortcoming that is entirely Mankinds... or would you rather be an utterly subservient, programmed, and completely cold machine, doing only what you are told exactly as you are told?

    I would contend that the truly unfortunate part is that those who wish to claim such a God does not exist seem incapable of simply allowing those who wish to believe He does to do so in peace... meanwhile, the ones wielding Religion like a sword continue to use it for their own personal gain (Looking at you Joel Osteen, you greasy fuck)
     
  11. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Experimenting scientists ranged from being apathetic to pleasure-gratified about the living conditions and assorted suffering of animal test subjects. Until public conscience developed and intruded its evolving moral standards upon them. So why the devil would researchers running a cosmos-generating algorithm or program on a quantum computer at some "higher level in the Russian nested-doll" hierarchy devote awareness and compassion to any molds and smuts perchance arising upon one reckoned world among the staggering quantity of them?

    That is, if one desires this whole "god / gods" business to be slightly more tenable than that based on ancient tribal folklore and its bizarrely "non-indifferent to humanity" transcendent species. The latter's apologetics can take care of itself -- imagination has had a "toss it in there" fest with regard to what it can project into early-society mythos as a remedy for their _X_ problems. Since there was scare concern for overarching coherence in those collected cultural jumbles of symbolic storytelling projects to begin with.

    - - -
     
  12. martillo Registered Senior Member

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    864
    Seems you got the point. Thanks for the comment. Not so easy to understand, I think, but I'll try...
     
  13. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Possibly for the same reason some among humanity become deeply attached to their character(s) in World of Warcraft / The Sims / Insert Video Game of Choice?
     
  14. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Since I have no belief in any god it is impossible for me to blame or attribute any action good bad or indifferent on said super duper one in the sky entity

    I can safely leave those thoughts to those who DO believe to ponder said almighty ones motives and mysterious ways of movement

    Think that thought is back to front

    Religious beings want for some, to me, obscure reason want to save us non believer heathens

    How many athesist door knock urging believers to give up their beliefs?

    My guess is zero

    Conflict does arise when athesist living in the real world are

    urged by believers to adopt real man made laws laws made up by believers

    which fit nicely into some fictional sky world

    If you disagree with said fictional sky world laws it appears you will burn in hell in the afterlife - which I don't believe in

    For the laws which believers and non believers agree on punishment here on Earth seems to be the go

    Believers seem to struggle with man made laws which are concerned mostly with individuals rights which are none of the believers business

    The weirdest one which springs to mind is the one where a clerk refused to issue a marriage certificate to a gay couple

    On my side of the fence would be a gay couple insisting a wedding cake makers make them a cake

    My advice to the first do your job

    Advice to the second don't try to force your money into a business which doesn't want it

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  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I'd be fine if only evil people were more likely to get struck by lightning.
     
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  16. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Heard it

    Thought about it

    Common parlance

    Been there done that

    Don't believe in any god

    Moved on

    Living a / the good life

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  17. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    It was like that for a short while when churches refused to install lighten rods

    Damn science for winning this one

    Thesist would be so busy repairing their buildings there would be no time or persons available for door knocking

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  18. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Aye... but what about after this life is over? I'm going to guess you don't believe there is anything "after"?
     
  19. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Not exactly

    I do believe there is a afterlife

    FOR EVERYBODY I LEAVE BEHIND AFTER I DIE

    Afterlife for me NO

    Reincarnation got it partly right

    The bacteria of my body will feast away as they cause my body to rot

    Of course they are totally unaware of their actions as am I

    Planted in the ground some of my body will recycle into the worms and other underground life forms

    Even plants will benefit from my blood and bone acting as fertilizer

    By the way if any of my parts are usable after I die ANYBODY is welcome to help themselves at no cost

    And anything thing left over don't waste your money on any sort of funeral

    Black garbage bag good enough

    So to sum up

    I'm dead

    The Universe continues

    So do the myriad people and other life forms continue

    A very tiny fraction will be aware I have died

    Most won't

    I won't know I have died

    And another group I just thought of who won't know I have died

    ALL THOSE WHO HAVE DIED BEFORE ME

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  20. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    *shrug* Only time will tell, I guess
     
  21. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    How?

    Nobody I know (know in the very broadest sense as in I would include celebs I read about) nobody in such a broad group has ever come back to tell us about the other side

    If if if there is a other side it appears only the dead know about it which is useless for those of us on this side of life

    What are they hiding?

    Or is it so great they want to keep it a secret hoping you won't bother dieing to find out?

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  22. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Heh, as I said - only TIME will tell. We will all find out in the end (I know I have no desire to live forever).
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Unfortunately if if if there is another side only the dead side will be told

    Both to the believers and non believers

    So the believers will have the chance to say Na Na Na

    If if if there is NOT a dead side those who believe there is will not know they were wrong

    But the non believers do not have a Na Na Na moment

    Not fair

    Worse than Catch 22

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