I think they acomplished their goal. People know what is happening. And I think Republicans will be made to pay for this in the next election cycle, not just in Wisconsin but across the nation. So while they may win this battle, I think they will loose the war.
Well...yes, that's the point, though I'm a bit skeptical of your predictions. I saw a poll either this morning or yesterday morning on USA Today that indicated that people, in general, think that teacher's unions don't help students. But in any event, we'll see---if Gov. Walker's agenda helps Wisconsin stay out of debt, then the electorate may forget that one or two of the measures were wildly unpopular. And just to be clear: the Wisconsin Republicans DID pull a dirty trick, circumventing the opposition by using a parliamentary slight-of-hand (kind of like the Democrats did to ease the passage of Obama's health care reform).
To be clear, the House and the Senate passed the same Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPCA). And they passed with it with a majority vote in the House and a super majority vote in the Senate. After initial passage of the act, modifications were made to the PPCA in the Senate through a Senate parlimentary procedure (budget reconcillation) which allow the Senate to pass the changes with a simple majority vote. So there was no slight of hand in the passage or subsequent modification of PPCA. Wisconsin Republicans on the other hand really did a dirty and illegal deed today. After preaching to Congress last year that all bills should be posted for a reasonable period of time to allow the public time to read said bills before they are voted on; Republicans/Tea Partiers yet again proved to be hypocrits by passing this piece of legislation through an obscure parlimentary process in the dead of night and in violation of Wisconsin Open Meetings Law. http://www.wisfoic.org/an-openmeetingslaw.html
Total BS. The legislation has been available to the public for more than THREE WEEKS, because that's when all 14 Senate Democrats fled to Illinois to prevent them from having enough members present to vote on Walker's "budget repair bill". All they did was break the EXACT SAME LEGISLATION that had been there for 3 weeks into two pieces and pass only the part that didn't have budget impacts. Arthur
No joe the truth is very rough on you. And the fact are very rough on the Democrats and the Union cash cow cronies. The truth is that as long as legislation doesn't involve spending money, all you need in the State Senate of Wisconsin is a simple majority of legislators in the chamber and legislation can be passed. My State, and I know the rules that it is governed under. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260222/walker-holds-his-ground-robert-costa Wisconsin State Constitution Organization of legislature; quorum; compulsory attendance. SECTION 7. Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide. Vote on fiscal bills; quorum. SECTION 8. On the passage in either house of the legislature of any law which imposes, continues or renews a tax, or creates a debt or charge, or makes, continues or renews an appropriation of public or trust money, or releases, discharges or commutes a claim or demand of the state, the question shall be taken by yeas and nays, which shall be duly entered on the journal; and three−fifths of all the members elected to such house shall in all such cases be required to constitute a quorum therein.
Why do you say that joe? You KNOW the legislation has been available for WEEKS, it in fact has been discussed in great detail, so to claim that Republicans were up to dirty tricks by not allowing for a reasonable period of time for the public to read the bill before it was voted on is clearly BS. The public in Wisconsin knew EXACTLY what was being voted on. Indeed it would have been passed 3 weeks ago but for the fact that the Democrats fled the state simply to subvert the democratic process. Arthur
joe, to quote some one you greatly admire; Obama 2009: "Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won." In Wisconsin, Scott Walker and the Republicans Won in a Land Slide, precisely on Balancing the Budget, by Cutting Uncontrolled Spending. We were given the reigns of government, in open election, and the People of this State changed the make up of our State Government from Democrat controlled to Republican. So suck it up Bucko; Obama 2009: "Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won." At the end of the 2010 elections we won.
Chalk one up for Governor Brown and the Republicans: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-09-19-45-22
sadly once again the right wing's attacks on everyday people and their rights was successful. I hate the fact they are slowly destroying this country with their idiodcy
I suggest you read the Wisconsin Public Meeting Law which was previously posted Arthur. It is very clear that the law was violated.
So then why were you complaining when Democrats tried to pass laws last year or is it that when Democrats win elections it doesn't count in your view? I suppose that also explains why Republicans filibustered virtually every bill that went through the Senate these last few years.
No it is not clear and indeed if there were a case to be made that it was broken the Dems would take it to the AG, who has the power to take it to the courts and they can rule to void the law. Let me know when that happens, because from reading the OML I don't agree that they violated it. So after 3 friggin weeks of discussing this legislation, in the open, to claim that they violated the open meeting laws is indeed SILLY in the extreme. Arthur
Read the law Arthur, then it might become more clear. But given your proclivity to defend Republican/Tea Partiers no matter what they do, I doubt that you will ever admit to wrong doing by Republicans/Tea Partiers. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I just read it joe, I posted the key policy aims it was trying to accomplish and I don't think either the AG or a Wisconsin Court would agree with you that this legislation was passed without the public being aware of it. Now if and when the AG supports you, I'll concede. Arthur
You know as well as I do that the AG is a Republican who would only go against his party on his death bed. If you read the Wisconsin Public Meetings law, it requires 24 hour public notice. In exceptional situations it allows a 2 hour meeting notice. Republicans in Wisconsin did not even meet the 2 hour meeting notice requirement. The bottom line Arthur, Republicans in Wisconsin violated their own open government law and proved Republicans at large to be hypocrits yet again.
Actually you haven't shown that there was not an appropriate notice wasn't posted of the House being in session and because of that, this section seems to allow for exactly what happened: Again, when the AG takes this to court, let me know. Finally joe, to try to make your case, that the public didn't know about this legislation, after it's been in the news for the last 3 weeks is frankly SILLY in the extreme. Arthur
Arthur, Arthur, you want to change the subject. Let me remind you we are dicussing the fact that Republicans in Wisconsin violated their own state law. They did not give 24 hour notice as is required by their law. They gave less than 2 hours of notice. And then you recycle your standard arguement - it's ok that the fox is in charge of the hen house. Well one day those Republican foxes will not be in charge. In addition, you are yet again ignoring Republican hypocrisy. Republicans for the last few years have been banging on Democrats regarding public notice. And now in the dead of night Republicans craft new legislation and ram it down the throats of the people of Wisconsin without adequate notice violating their own law. And you want to excuse it by saying well it really wasn't new. In fact it was new. That bill they passed last night did not exist in the public record 24 hours ago.
Apparently none of this was done in the dead of the night, or done improperly. http://www.koco.com/r/27143401/detail.html As to that exact version of the Bill not being available to the public, there is no actual legal requirement for that joe, so again, no law was broken by stripping out the budgetary measures and passing the rest of the well discussed provisions of the bill, in the afternoon, in open session. Arthur
I'd like to know if anyone who reads this were the governor and they didn't have the taxable income to pay all of the employees what they were promised, how would you assertain monies to do so? You'd either have to: A. raise taxes B. lay off workers. C. ask for a reduction of paychecks and benifits.
